This is a common myth that I hope to dispel here. Affairs happen IN HAPPY MARRIAGES. If we take nothing else away from this thread, take that away.
Your example of how a co-worker becomes a lover is absurdly simplified, Linty. Dangermom gives a much better, realistic version of how it happens. It happens over time, with lunches and coffees and trips to and from the office and weekends away on sales trips and intimate conversations and confidences shared and feelings developing over time.
Intelligent, committed, loving people can find themselves across boundaries that they hadn’t even realized they were crossing. I find it a bit depressing that so many people here are so firmly in the “It can’t happen to me” camp that they’re not even entertaining the possibility and being more careful with it. It can, and it might.
Well, yeah, I was joking. It’s called “hyperbole”.
And here’s the fundamental disconnect. No one here is saying that there aren’t boundaries to watch out for, or that they themselves weren’t capable of messing up. I myself said that it wasn’t a good idea to cross boundaries. I also said that one had to be on guard against feelings like that developing.
But as I’ve said before, there’s a difference between being in an area where there might be a slippery slope nearby and flying down that slippery slope. I find it a bit depressing that you believe that any friendship with the preferred sex (I actually like that term quite a bit) is in and of itself asking for trouble because some people take it too far. You might as well say that having a beer after work is asking for trouble, because some people become alcoholics.
shrug I would like to think not, but the fact is that it happens all the time, in perfectly normal and functioning marriages. I’ve known people to wind up in affairs because they wanted to do something nice and give someone rides to work. People leave their lovely, innocent, shell-shocked families in just this way. The thing is, it starts perfectly innocently, and by the time people realize that they’ve crossed a line, they are deeper in than they thought and no longer want to get out. We’re human beings, and as such are very good at rationalization and not looking very far ahead.
I am very happily married. I love my husband to death, and he adores me, and we’re very well-suited to each other. Because we love each other and want to keep it that way, we behave in ways that will ensure we never have to worry about starting down a path we don’t want to walk–we don’t go out alone with opposite-sex friends, but meet in groups. It’s very easy to do, and it makes sure that we will never have to look at temptation and realize we’re not that strong.
I have never been tempted to have an affair, and I can’t really imagine wanting to stray. But I know quite well that I’m not perfect, and people better than I have gone that way. So I do my best to act in a way that I know will safeguard my marriage and family–the most precious things I have are worth guarding. That is my boundary, my self-awareness and my discipline, DianaG. You’re may set yours somewhere else, of course, but this is my preferred method.
Ah, I think this is where our minds are not meeting. What I’m saying is that you can end up on that slippery slope without even realizing you stepped foot on it. You knew it was nearby, and you were careful, but somehow it got underfoot anyway.
Well, actually, if you want 100% prevention of people becoming alcoholics, nobody drinking would be it. But I do agree that that is a little extreme.
My personal opinion of this subject - men and women can be friends, but you have to be really, really careful with preferred sex friends, because of how easy it is to cross barriers that can be awfully hard to see, and how much damage you can do in a short time with the best intentions in the world. In some ways, I do agree with Mr. Neumann, because avoiding all preferred sex friendships would be the simplest way of preventing the friendship infidelity, which is the majority of all infidelities. Note that I say the simplest way, not necessarily the best way.
To quote Eminem, “What? She tripped, fell, landed on his dick?” (Yes, I understand that the author is referring to emotional affairs, but it was the first thing that came to mind, and it cracked me up.)
I am the only person responsible for my actions. An affair doesn’t just happen to you. You make a series of decisions that culminate in breaking your vows to your partner. Life doesn’t just sweep you up in a grand gesture and force you to have an affair. I have self-control, and I chose to marry someone who has the same level of self-control that I do. I wouldn’t condemn someone who chose not to be close with certain people simply because of their gender, but I would wonder the rationale behind the decision. I put that question to one of my friends, and she told me that both her and her spouse are very jealous people and it was a decision they made together. Different folks, different strokes and all that. However, if someone told me that I shouldn’t be friends with a guy because of the chance of an affair, I would be very offended as that would call into question my morals and self-control.
This one is really hard for me because I’ve been on both sides of this. My husband and I have been happily married for over 7 years, and he really gets along best with women. He has a male friend or two, but his core group of friends (jokingly referred to as his harem) are all women. He’s also a HUGE flirt and will flirt with anything with a heartbeart.
In my mind, it isn’t about how much time he spends with his friends or whether he goes out on traditional date-type activities. It’s about respect. We were actually talking about this really recently. It’s important that his plans with his friends not interfere with any of our plans together. We, as a couple, come first, no questions asked. Secondly, I want to know where he’s going, with whom, and vague approximation of he’ll come home. That’s just being generally considerate, and I would expect it no matter who he was out with. Lastly, important to be open and honest about everything, especially if something is making me uncomfortable. It’s okay for me to not be completely comfortable with his interactions with someone, but I do have a responsibility to bring it up with him in a constructive way. It’s his responsibility to respect that and to help us to work together on a solution.
If I trust my partners to do what it takes to maintain our relationships, then none of this other stuff makes a difference, because I know it’s not a threat. I’m not interested in empowering it as a threat, either; I have enough stress in my life at the moment with getting ready to move.
If I don’t have that sort of trust, I don’t think I have any business being in a relationship with that person. I’m not going to settle for any less than that – if I don’t believe that a relationship will be maintained at a certain level, I don’t want to be invested at that level. I’ll just get hurt. (The only time I’ve had to end a relationship over this particular trust issue, the “other woman” was a PhD thesis.)
I have to agree. I don’t know anyone that has been in a happy, functioning relationship where cheating has been a problem. The relationship that springs to mind for me is a couble that has a terribly unhealthy relationship that no one thought was a good idea than and everyone thinks is a terrible one now, regardless of the fact that the guy can’t keep his hands to himself.
And also, what about bisexual people? Are they never allowed to have friends they spend time with alone? I mean, I’m bi. While I am in a heterosexual, commited relationship, that doesn’t mean I’m not still fundamentally attracted to women as well, though it’s not something that I bring up usually. Does that mean I should ditch my female friends as well?
Crap, what are we supposed to do, stop talking to half the people we know once we get married or whatever?
“No preferred sex friends” would be an enormous burden on me because most of my outside-of-work activities are heavily male dominated. I do have male friends other than my husband. I don’t see this as an inherent problem, however –
You do have to be careful. Some people can’t handle this sort of thing, and you have to respect that. You have to know when to back off. My spouse knows where I am, who I’m with, and any relevant details. No touching of any sort (well, if you’re gushing blood then staunching the flow of bodily fluids is OK - you know what I mean). A little flirting, but only if both parties really do know it’s kidding around - and no flirting whatsoever with a man who hasn’t had any for awhile. Don’t dress like a slut. There’s no need to provide extra temptation. Include significant others as often as possible. If that’s not practical, include other people.
Men and women are not sex-crazed minks who will fall upon each other given the least opportunity. Yes, I have felt attraction towards my male friends. I haven’t acted on it, and there are times I backed off from spending time with one of these friends to make sure that wouldn’t happen. I can’t always control what I feel or think but I sure as heck can control what I do.
A lot of it is making sure those friendships don’t get to be as deep and special as the one I have with my husband. I don’t share my deep, inner emotional self with my guy friends, only with my husband.
I wonder… if I ever got married, would I have to give up my bisexual female friends too? Would gay male friends be acceptable?
I’m not planing on having sex with any of those ladies, what with me straight and we living several thousand miles apart, but seriously, any husband-wannabe who expects me to never talk to another guy in a friendly fashion unless we’re related by blood is not a husband I want.
This isn’t really what any of us who have reservations are talking about. No one is saying you can’t have casual preferred sex friends, just that for many people becoming close friends (which means spending a lot of time alone with them, in my book) with a member of the preferred sex can lead to problems; even you never end up cheating. My husband doesn’t have a problem with me having an occasional lunch or something with an old high school buddy, but you can bet he would have a problem if I started spending a couple of evenings a week alone with him. I considered all of the guys I used to work with friends, but I wasn’t going to the movies alone with them or spending hours talking on the phone. .(I am not the type to do this with female friends, either, so that might skew things in my case.) There are people you are friendly with, and people who are true friends. In many cases, it is better not to develop new, close, time-consuming friendships with the preferred sex, if only for your SO’s peace of mind.
Renee, this is the first job I have where we actually have a majority of women. I’m an engineer, you see.
I just joined a local club. We’re 4:1 m:f country-wide (don’t know the statistics for the local chapter, since I’m going to my first local meeting next Friday).
90% of the friends I’ve ever had are/were male. The other 10% is females who feel more comfortable with guys than with “girly” girls and who are more likely to go on a shopping spree at the IT section of the local FNAC than at the local Mango.
I don’t have much of a social life, but the man who wants me better be willing to take it with the rest of me. My longest-lasting bf’s have both been guys who didn’t have a problem when I hit it off with their mostly-male friends; I’ve had bf-wannabes who did have a problem with that… tells you why they stopped at “wannabe”.
Same thing when you’re a female geek who doesn’t socialize much outside of work (I’m too tired when I go home to want to go anywhere). Even if I did socialize outside of work, it would be mostly with geeks, therefore mostly with men- my interests are a lot closer to that of the stereotypical geek than that of the stereotypical woman. So if I did this, I would have no friends at all
I think I’m pretty safe, though- I don’t know how to flirt, and if someone were flirting with me, I wouldn’t notice unless they said to me, “hey, I’m flirting with you,” in which case I would hold my hand with my wedding ring out like someone holding out a cross to repel a vampire, then run away. One of the big upsides to being married, IMO, is that I no longer have to try (and fail) to flirt with anyone or tolerate people flirting with me. I’ve got someone- why on earth would I want to go through the hell that is making a good impression on someone and dating again?
This is pretty much my place on the whole issue. I have guy friends, I have girl friends. More of the former, usually; don’t ask me why, I just get on with them. But when I was dating, I didn’t even think ‘that way’ about anyone. I could admire a man, but it wouldn’t even occur to me to have sexual or intimate thoughts about him. Even if I could appreciate his general sexiness.
But I do agree that that is a little extreme.
