Emotional infidelity: share your experiences & opinions

In My Humble Opinion
1

I recently readthis article on emotional infidelity. It concerns a book by M. Gary Neuman, a marriage counselor who opines that any cross-gender friendship a married person has is inherently risky. Among other things, he recommends ten things a married person should avoid at work:

[QUOTE=M. Gary Neuman]

10 Rules for Avoiding Emotional Infidelity

  1. Keep it all business in the office.

  2. Avoid meetings with members of the opposite sex outside the workplace.

  3. Meet in groups.

  4. Find polite ways of ending personal conversations.

  5. Take particular care not to have regular (perhaps daily or even weekly)
    conversations about your life outside work.

  6. Don’t share your personal feelings.

  7. Be unflinchingly honest with yourself.

  8. Avoid cordial kisses and hugs, or dancing with members of the opposite
    sex.

  9. Don’t drink around the opposite sex.

  10. Show your commitment to your spouse daily.
    [/QUOTE]

I’m a bit ambivalent here. On the one hand, I have any any number of friendships with women at work that weren’t even a bit sexual; hell, even my friend who called me her work husband meant nothing by it. On the other hand, in my twenties I often cultivated friendships with unhappily married women because I knew I could get them into bed.

So I ask you, Dopers: have you ever been involved in emotional infidelity–as the cheater, as the cheated on, or as the cheated with? Where do you draw the lines? And what about gays & lesbians–should they avoid friendships with persons of their own gender at work?

Apropos of nothing, this is the second time I’ve tried starting this thread. My first attempt was in the of a Petrachan sonnet. Gorram hamsters.

2

I am of the opinion that it is possible for a person to have friends of the opposite sex without it being “emotional infidelity”. My life as a person and my need for friendships did not stop when I got married. I have male friends, my husband has female friends. The list in the OP sounds as if the author doesn’t believe people of the opposite sex can be friends at all.

3

I really don’t know what comes first: the feeling you can’t share something with your spouse, or the opportunity to share it with others. What came first, the chicken or the egg?

I do agree with Neuman, though, that the two things often correlate.

4

[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady]
I am of the opinion that it is possible for a person to have friends of the opposite sex without it being “emotional infidelity”.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, absolutely. But the things that the list prohibits are things that can lead to emotional (and/or physical) infidelity.

Well, there is some debate over whether people of the opposite sex can be friends without sex becoming an issue (see When Harry Met Sally).

Personally, I think that if you’re a faithful-by-nature person who’s not even open to the possibility of a (sexual or emotional) affair, there’s no particular danger with opposite-sex friendships/socializing. Some people have no problem with this, just like some people can walk into a store determined just to browse and not even be tempted to buy anything.

If you’re double-minded, though—if you want to or know you ought to stay faithful but in the back of you’re mind you’re open to a little extracurricular activity, The List is a good precaution to make sure you don’t stray.

But that’s just my perspective, limited as it is.

5

The guy is making a living dealing with people with messed up marriages, so it’s not unreasonable that he’d think this way. For those of us with healthy marriages, on the other hand, this is a load of rubbish.

6

Wow. I just found out in the most embarrassing way that even same sex dancing is frowned upon at work.

7

Well on the one hand, I am a woman in a committed relationship, and I also have several very close male friends. Of course I don’t have the slightest romantic feelings for any of them…

However, I do agree with a woman from the article who says:

This is very true.

I think the danger lies in that if the marriage is going through rocky times, and a spouse feels sad, depressed, etc., an opposite-sex “friend” can suddenly look like a good option when offering a “shoulder to cry on…” This could easily lead to more when the spose is emotionally vulnerable. And as the OP said, many unmarried people will try to pounce on a married person they are interested in at the first sign of unhappiness in the marriage.

So yeah, if my husband was hanging out with a female “friend” and we were having rocky times, I would be very nervous. Not only that he might try to “get some” elsewhere, but also because his “friend” might see a really good opportunity to pounce…

8

I’ve never understood the notion that “marriage” means “ownership of another person’s body, mind, emotions, heart, soul, personality and spirit.”

I love my wife, and want her to be happy. Why would I want to deny her the happiness of friendships and emotional attachments with other people? Shutting her into an emotional cloister and then zealously walking the perimeter, constantly on guard against any potential breach, would be a sure way make her unhappy; how could it possibly be good for her, or me, or our relationship?

I don’t know why possessiveness and jealousy are considered good things, or signs of a loving commitment, but to me, it’s a twisted perversion of what love and marriage should be. The “rules” listed above, and in fact the very notion of “emotional infidelity”, seem to me to be poisonous to a healthy, loving relationship.

To say “I love you. I want you to be happy. Therefore, you had better not ever have any emotional attachment to anyone but me!” just doesn’t scan for me. I’m glad my marriage has never been like that, and I pity people who think that way.

9

[QUOTE=kelly5078]
The guy is making a living dealing with people with messed up marriages, so it’s not unreasonable that he’d think this way. For those of us with healthy marriages, on the other hand, this is a load of rubbish.
[/QUOTE]

I think you nailed it.

10

[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
So I ask you, Dopers: have you ever been involved in emotional infidelity–as the cheater, as the cheated on, or as the cheated with? Where do you draw the lines? And what about gays & lesbians–should they avoid friendships with persons of their own gender at work?
[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by emotional infidelity? When does it move from a conversation to cheating on?

I’ve met several people that, if I wasn’t already involved in a longterm relationship, I would be interested in exploring things with. I’ve also got lots of male friends that I’ve known for lots and lots of years. I don’t consider either of these infidelity.

11

[QUOTE=Tastes of Chocolate]
What do you mean by emotional infidelity?

[/quote]

No, what do YOU mean by emotional infidelity? :cool:

Part of what I’d like to explore is how people would define the term. F’instance, I used to be friends with a woman who told me in great detail about the troubles in her marriage, in a way that I was sure would make her husband uncomfortable (at least, I certainly would have been displeased in her place). On the one hand she needed to deal with her issues; but on the other, by being so intimate with me she was betraying his trust. Another woman I knew was more overtly unfaithful (just not physically so) with her minister; there were late-night poetry reading sessions while he stroked her hair, told her she was more beautiful than her husband gave her credit for, etc. --everything short of kissing her, really.

That’s what i’m asking you.

12

This is a bit of a rehash of a response I made to a thread several months ago about infidelity. I’ll repeat the story here.

It was about 10 years ago. I was involved in a community theater production in which my character and a younger female character renewed an old affair with a series of onstage kisses that were played for laughs. The actress (whom I’ll call Lisa – not her real name) was a beautiful, vivacious, hilariously funny young lady, and sister of the director. During rehearsals both of them pointed out to me that my kissing seemed to lack fervor. While we didn’t spend any extra time on it, over the course of rehearsals I perfected my lip-locking technique. And I’m here to tell ya’, you cannot passionately kiss another person several times a night for six weeks without having it affect you. I’ve sometimes thought those steamy love scenes in the movies are as responsible for Hollywood marriage breakups as anything.

My wife was completely aware of what was involved in the play, and even attended all of the performances.

Unfortunately, by the time the play closed, I was pretty badly infatuated with Lisa (yes, I know I was confusing her with her character; didn’t make it any less real to me.) Imagine my shock when, at the cast party (which my wife did not attend) Lisa’s brother confided in me that she had developed a major crush on me. Lisa and I spent much of the party in close proximity to each other, but never actually touched.

In the weeks that followed, I came to believe that I was desperately in love with Lisa. When my wife confronted me about my obviously distracted state, I confessed my feelings to her. Being the organized, no-shit woman she is, she made a few phone calls and, within hours, I was sitting in a marriage therapist’s office. I was utterly amazed (though I shouldn’t have been) to discover that my wife felt deeply betrayed; I was stunned to hear the therapist refer to my wife as having been cheated on. After several weeks of “marital intensive care” and months of less intensive care, we declared our marriage healed. There have been other bumps along the way, but the therapy taught us how to handle those, and we’ve never been happier.

The thing is, except for those on-stage kisses, I never touched Lisa. And the kisses weren’t even particularly romantic – we hammed it up because we had to get laughs with them. But the intimacy of the act, regardless of how unemotional it was supposed to be, triggered a deep emotional response in both of us. And my wife has said she felt no less cuckolded than if she’d found us in bed together.

I still dabble in community theater, but I’m a lot pickier about the roles (Markinson in “A Few Good Men” was my last – no kissing there, unless you count the sidearm.) And I’ve been extremely wary of all relationships with women. Once burned, as they say, twice shy.

13

My husband and I both have friends of the opposite sex. However, they’re all “couple friends” or people we knew before we got married. I know all of my husband’s friends and he knows all of mine–whether opposite or same sex.

I do think Neuman has a point about going out in groups. If my husband said, “Hey, I met this cool woman at work, we should invite her to our next party,” I wouldn’t think twice. If he suddenly started going out for coffee with a woman I’d never met, that would be very weird for me.

14

Hmm. I responded pretty much to the OP without reading the other responses. Perhaps I shared too much? I thought you wanted actual accounts of experiences.

I do think the list of things to never do is a bit severe, especially dancing with people not your spouse. Depends on how you dance, I guess. I’ve danced with every female in-law I have at various weddings; cut a rug with some friends when we all went to a dance. Drinks were involved; heck, ya’ can’t really go out socializing without people of the other gender being around.

15

[QUOTE=burundi]
I do think Neuman has a point about going out in groups. If my husband said, “Hey, I met this cool woman at work, we should invite her to our next party,” I wouldn’t think twice. If he suddenly started going out for coffee with a woman I’d never met, that would be very weird for me.
[/QUOTE]

I agree. My boyfriend can have female friends, but if he’s spending time alone with them I’d feel very uncomfortable.

16

Have to say I have some problems with that list. The great majority of my friends over the years have been male. Back as far as kindergarten…I got accused of having boy cooties numerous times. So the idea that this should be avoided when you’re in a relationship…well I don’t know how to live with that. I just can’t imagine shutting off personal connection with the other sex because you’re having personal realions with one of them.

And beyond that. I have to say I wouldn’t consider it anything like infidelity if my SO had some connection with someone (male or female, what’s the difference?) other than me. I’m not the whole universe. I’d be sad if I thought I was enough to give hime everying. Sounds like a failure of imagination. I wouldn’t even mine if he dances and his pulse rises. As long as he’s committed to me.

If you want a personal experience though, my ex-SO. Nothing I’m that upset about, as we figured out we’re better off as brother and sister. But I only recently found out the whole time we were together he was in love with someone else. Didn’t see her. Certainly didn’t fuck her while I was with him. But was carrying that torch the whole time. Now she’s all I hear about. Well, go wit my graces. But I’m not thrilled that he didn’t really tell me about her till after I officially left.

17

Thats a tough one. It depends on the people. Its a lot more likely to happen if the marriage is having major troubles.

18

I thimk that if your relationship is healthy, you don’t have to constantly remind yourself to be faithful. Anyway, if you’re not actually banging other people. what’s the problem. What is “emotional infidelity?” What does fidelity have to do with emotion? You’re either banging other people or you’re not.

19

[QUOTE=Dag Otto]
Wow. I just found out in the most embarrassing way that even same sex dancing is frowned upon at work.
[/QUOTE]

Details?
(and what about solo dancing?)

20

What the heck, this sounds like some very odd kind of bullshit. Like when I first heard about “cybersex” and people having “affairs” over the internet. Sorry, to have an affair you both have to be in the same room. What you can have over the internet is a flirtation, and it might be cheating and it might be low, it might even turn into an infatuation, but it’s not infidelity. Yet. Truly, until you meet that person at the other end you don’t even know if they’re the opposite sex (or whichever sex is relevant to cheating).

And it’s weird the way sharing intimate things with someone other than your spouse is only cheating if you share it with a friend of the opposite sex, according to this article. Let’s see: (1) emotional intimacy greater than in the marriage, (2) sexual tension, and (3) secrecy. I do get that all three things on the part of one partner would be cause for concern by the other partner but at that point it’s not quite a betrayal.

I think this guy has a definite “Darn all these women in the workforce” kind of attitude, and I will NOT subscribe to his newsletter.

Now onto my cheating (not that I would call it that–I don’t think even my husband would, although he would be concerned).

A couple of weeks ago I went out with a friend. When I got home and my husband asked where we went to eat I quickly said Chili’s, which is where we (my friend and I) usually go. I then went on to say it must be my week for lettuce wraps, as my husband and I had lunched at Chili’s just a couple of days before and that’s what I had then, too. Then I shut up, because one of the secrets of being a good liar is not saying too much.

And we didn’t go to Chili’s. We went to Barnes & Noble, then sat down at the Starbucks and drank coffee for two hours.

This seems like a pretty inconsequential lie, and I never lie about anything important. Nonetheless, it is not only a lie but a pattern–lying to my husband about where I am (although not who I’m with, usually). I’ve said I was going into work on the weekend and gone to a movie. I’ve said I was going to a movie and gone to the office. I’ve said I was going somewhere with a friend and then gone alone. I have no idea why I do this. Every once in a while I worry that I might be practicing for something bigger.