this is the main point–a religion becomes mainstream when its children take the same comfort from its institutions that their parents received from the original charismatic founder.
does anybody have any facts about the number of families with children who are active in Scientology? Most charlatans tend to be single, and the few Scientologists that I’ve ever known personally were all single (and pretty unstable, too)
The difference between the Scientologists and the Mormons is that I think Smith and the other founding fathers of that church actually believed what they were preaching. It seems likely to me that Hubbard and the current Scieno leadership knew that they were/are frauds.
But that may not last forever. At some point the true believers in the church will reach critical mass, and oust the charlatans in their midst. That doesn’t guranteethat they’ll mmediately go mainstream. Indeed, the true believers are likely even less interested in cultivating a good public image than the frauds were. And believing in a religion honestly doesn’t mean that you won’t use it to your own material advantage (especially when, as in Scientology, that’s already part and parcel of the church structure and theology). But the urge to liberalize, assimilate to the mainstream culture, and broaden acceptance and recruitment will be there.
They’d have to open their beliefs to public scrutiny. Downplay the less savory aspects (no more “fair play”). Lessen the financial obligations, and pretty much rewrite their theology. But it could work.
Yes, but as far as we unbelievers are concerned, they’ll be bleating a dead horse.
Yeah, all that Christian walking on water, turning into a pillar of salt, loaves and fishes, coming back to life after being killed stuff is perfectly logical, but that Scientologist Xenu shit – how could anyone buy into such crazy stuff?
Unlikely, as Scientology was founded partially to be an “enemy” of sorts, to psychology (remember, L. Ron was batshit), and they view psychology as THE biggest all time evil in the world.
Look, this (the U.S.) is an originally Protestant Christian society where Islam isn’t a mainstream religion yet – maybe in one or two generations – and Judaism was accepted as a mainstream religion no earlier than the '60s, and anti-Catholic prejudice survived long enough to complicate (but not stop) the election of JFK as president. I think it will be a long, long time before a belief-system entirely outside the Abrahamic-Yahvist tradition will be accepted to the degree Judaism is now.
There have been a lot of relatively new religions in the past one or two centuries that have achieved “mainstream” status, and whose leaders were accused of being charlatans and frauds. Think of Christian Science and Ba’hai, and Shakerism (a little older, but still fits). One thing that keeps a group from being mainstream is when it keeps to itself and is seen as actively belligerent to others. People aren’t willing to take you in if they think you have ominous designs on local politics or atre trying to actively hurt people. Think of the Japanese group Aum Shinrikyu, or the Rajneeshis back in Antelope, Oregon.
Despite the claims of Scientologists that they’ve relented on the Fair GHame" doctrine and documented law-breaking like “Operation Snow White” or “PC Freakout”, their recent actions don’t give you a lot of faith in this, and the very public actions and behavior of celebrity spokespersons like Tom Cruise and John Travolta make it seem downright weird. It’ll be a long time befiore Scientology is perceived as benign enough to be mainstream. I suspect that Scientology splinter organizations – what they like to call “Squirrels” – will be considered acceptable before the main body is, if it ever is.
[QUOTE=CalMeacham]
There have been a lot of relatively new religions in the past one or two centuries that have achieved “mainstream” status, and whose leaders were accused of being charlatans and frauds. Think of Christian Science and Ba’hai, and Shakerism (a little older, but still fits).QUOTE]
No one is afraid of Ba’hai, but that doesn’t mean it has achieved “mainstream” status in the U.S.
I’m afraid of Bahai – a Bahai witch doctor turned me into a newt!
(OK, I’m feeling a little better now – my skin is still covered in slime and I have to be in the water to spawn, but the tail is gone and I no longer have gills. But you get my point. Well, if I had one, you would.)
In this country, at least, any new religion that denies the Judeo-Christian-Muslim god will never be mainstream, period. A well-established religion that denies said god (Hinduism, Shintoism, etc.) may well become (or is) accepted and tolerated, but still won’t become “mainstream”.
LDS is not an apt anologue for Scientology, for that reason, much less Christian Science, etc.
Sua
It depends on how you define “mainstream”. I look at it as a religion that people will accept as something of no great cioncern, and won’t factor into whether they think people are reliable or dangerous. By that criterion, Ba’hai is as “mainstream” as Catholicism. So is LDS. But if you tell someone you’re a Branch Davidian or a Scientologist or even (in most circumstances I know) a Wiccan, they look at you strange and think twice about hiring you as a babysitter.
I have to disagree with your premise. I guess it depends on what you consider “mainstream,” but I think in this thread, the point is whether or not Scientology will ever be viewed as a religion and not a cult. Hinduism may not be practiced by a lot of people in this country, but I don’t think most people would consider it a cult instead of a religion.
Sarahfeena, you are right, I didn’t parse the OP correctly, but I won’t change my answer. In the US, any religion without long-established roots that denies the Judeo-Christian-Muslim god will always be considered a cult.
Sua
I predict a splinter group that insist the spaceships look like 707’s. A war will ensue leaving only John Travolta and Kristie Alley to repopulate the religious base.
HERETIC!
What about the Hare Krishnas?
Geez, I have no idea. I would guess that most people think that Hare Krishnas are some kind of cultic offshoot of Hindusim. Why do you ask?
Just a datapoint, but a friend’s brother was a Scientologist, at a reasonably high level, and he had kids. For quite a while he cut off contact between the kids and their grandparents. They were young at the time, and I don’t know what happens when and if they go into the world, but they surely have been indoctrinated.
1860s or 1960s? I was bar mitzvahed in 1964, and I never thought of myself as not mainstream. True, where I grew up we were a majority, and I knew about discrimination from my relatives, but as far as I can tell in most of the country Judaism was a mainstream if minority religion back to colonial times.
And The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints isn’t?
Cheers,
G