Read again what I just said, and your response.
Do I really need to bold, underline + italic part of my sentence?
Yes, I got that part.
I’m arguing against your hypothetical trump apologist. I suppose I could have started each post with “OK, my response to your guess of what that hypothetical person would retort would be to say…” but for the sake of brevity I skipped that.
There are two different things here.
If 1 hadn’t been done there would not be any issue around 2 as no email could be deleted without a record. I assume that the Secretary of State would fall under some form of data retention policy that would require archiving and backups of all emails through that account. Some IT guy should have flagged the lack of activity on the account and reported it.
Given what you had written, I assumed you though I was the Trump apologist. My mistake, I guess.
Let’s just walk back through what you’re saying (and yes by “you” I mean the hypothetical trump supporter you’re talking about. Even though you’re relaying these opinions in the first person).
You’re saying the whole evidence for wrongdoing on benghazi is the opportunity to have hidden some information about benghazi, assuming she deliberately withheld sensitive information from the state dept (AKA the opposite conclusion of the FBI investigation). And not forgetting we have nothing else – it’s not like there was evidence of wrongdoing, and we just need the emails as corroboration – there’s nothing there right now, after 8 investigations. Not even a hypothesis of any significant wrongdoing.
But OK. Let’s say we put a black mark on her record.
Now Trump: he has dozens if not hundreds of black marks on his record, some with triple exclamation marks in red ink written next to them. I gave a few examples upthread.
So how is it rational to hate hillary and/or vote trump?
Good Quora answer Link
Technically there is no evidence. The perception is that it existed but has been deleted, or she was protected by the ‘establishment’. The latter being why many think she hasn’t been charged with at least something regarding this or other ‘nefarious’ activity.
Which goes to prove that he isn’t trying to hide things and isn’t protected by the ‘establishment’.
My thought is that many perceive Trump as an open book and Hillary a closed book. Her actions regarding the email server alone do support that perception of Hillary and anyone who has a bit of impartiality in the matter should be willing to admit that. Many preferred the open book and voted that way.
I’ll add more support to this argument. Compliance is a very important in the corporate world. If I, as an employee of the company, find the company doing things outside their official policy, e.g. conducting company business on uncontrolled systems, it is my duty to report this activity to the compliance officer (or the reporting channel the company is obligated to setup). It is also my duty to report it to the appropriate regulatory body if the activity warrants it. That is the law and I can get fired or even end up in jail if I don’t do it. Company officers can be fined and jailed if they don’t act on my report. I find it very difficult to believe that no one flagged this activity and didn’t report it, so I’m left with the perception that it was reported and the report was ignored.
And here I thought that many complained about the liberals replying “But her emails!” to drive the point that many concentrating on that nothing burger gave us president Trump.
Well, I think it is really more annoying when we should be dealing with El Trompo now. As many conservatives also did remind us many times after the election, deal with it, not Hillary.
And seeing now what the Russians were doing with the Trump campaign, I do think that one important part of dealing with Trump should be to see where his money came from. So, going forward, it was also a very bad sign when Trump did not release his taxes. And it remains so. Demand your congress critters to press for their release.
Just pointing that out because it was, and is, asinine that a good number of Americans “perceive Trump as an open book”.
You mean hacking democratic servers and bringing forward evidence that the dems were rigging the system to get their chosen candidate through the primaries?
The perception being that Hillary is part of the establishment and they are working to get their candidate elected over the wishes of the electorate.
You must not had seen the news recently then. Oh well, it is easier to look at happier times I guess.
I can’t speculate on what people’s perceptions are now, I’m commenting on why I think they might have voted the way they did.
I agree with this. I agree that this is the perception many had and they voted accordingly. They picked the loveable rogue over the sinister, she-thinks-she’s-better-than-us woman.
But this thread is about whether people who care about “the straight dope” i.e. empirical data and proven theories, could vote trump.
And that case has not been made. The known, proven wrongdoings of Trump far outnumber Clinton’s. And the evidence of trying to hide information and mislead is far more in the Trump camp than Clinton’s too. Where are the tax returns? Where’s the info on his “charities”? Russia – in the past he’s said he was very close to putin, then changed that stance when it became politically expedient. What about separating his business interests from government (note he hasn’t done this – and showing a stack of papers that no-one can actually look through somehow hasn’t put my mind at ease).
That Trump’s campaign managed to convince so many people that Hillary is the crooked one, is a tribute to their campaign (and fake / fox news), shows what a poor campaign Dems ran, and is a shameful indictment of the voting public. But logical it ain’t.
But we can speculate on what they thought before? Well that is a very underwhelming point to make then, and still also because Clinton is not the issue here now, but why after the election would a doper would support someone that has so many troubles with the truth as Trump is.
Dopers seem to have an even greater trouble with the truth over Trump, making wild, unsubstantiated, and unfounded speculations. And object to or ignore being called on it. I’m no fan of Trump but the Dope really needs to dial back on the hate and stop spreading ignorance. I could tell a very nice story against Trump, but I don’t have sufficient command of the facts, so I won’t.
Trump’s a liar? No yoos are liars!
With defense like that you deserve a place in the prez’ team.
Okay, I’ll speculate on why people still support Trump based upon what I’ve seen just on the SD regarding the “All Trump, All the Time” bb this has become.
You’re being trolled. It is a troll’s (or even people who are not normally trolls) ultimate fantasy. The amount of froth being generated is at unprecedented levels and because the stakes are so high the left can’t remain silent, so it continually escalates.
…
Or, people are stupid.
Let’s keep it simple then: Trump is a disgrace as a person and as a president. There’s noting to “dial back.” I hate that deplorable elements in the American electorate voted for him. I will never again be able to have pride in this once-great nation unless the masses rise up and demand he resign and climb back under whatever rock he came out from under.
It’s starting to look like mass neurosis, nothing good can come out of it.
Or, they are smarter than you think.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx
Currently on Gallup 54% disapprove of how the president is doing, other polls agree and just Rasmussen shows a slight support of the so-called president.
As for being trolled, would you just accept that a troll has become president and just do nothing about it? Mind you, if it was just Trolling it would be tolerable, but being a Hispanic and involved in education I’m personally seeing what he is doing with the families of dreamers and many other undocumented people. This is not trolling at all.
In other definitions Trolls are not human indeed.
As pointed before, there are a good number of people over here that are of the “lets wait and see” type or the “it can not be that bad” or the ones that also told themselves that “Trump is lying about the wall and many other things”, “relax, he will be just like the democrat he was”.
I have to remember that when people do find that expectations like that were wrong they are more than willing to act, but mostly with the tools available in our democracy.
Here is a good example of why we are likely to see something good out of it:
*Yes, the mother of the Supreme court nominee made by Trump.
I came to the site today to look up an old article on VCR+ codes, and found this post I made two years ago.
I wrote it right after Trump became president and am wondering now how you are all feeling and if the repeated lies (or FAKE NEWS , depending on your POV) has resonated with you.
For me, I’m still in the mindset that you can support Trump but not agree with, and even call him out, for a lot of the lies and horrible things he says and does.
But there are many people who decide to believe, support, and repeat his lies when there’s mountains of facts before them…
But I don’t suspect those people can be true Dopers…
… But there has to be some, statistically.
And I am really trying to seek to understand that person’s viewpoint.
I don’t want to roast that person, or condemn them. I want to know and understand the “why” behind a person who comes here to debate and seek facts and truth will support everything Trump does and says…
I have over-estimated the president’s ability to fail upward. I fear I have overestimated the ability for the DNC to do anything about it either.
I am overwhelmed by being underwhelmed all around.
I doubt there’s anyone (except perhaps the President himself) that “will support everything Trump does and says” and I’m certainly not aware of any posters here on the SDMB that do so. There are certainly a lot of people that support some of what he says and does (and frankly, just about anyone ought to be able to find a few things he has said or done that they can support, even if they disagree with most of his words and actions).