Can we get rid of "retard" next?

[GreysonCarlisle]

@What_Exit

A reminder, if someone does use the word retard the posters are allowed to reply/comment in threads anywhere on the board that the word is offensive, punches down and demeans and belittles an entire class of marginalized and often abused people who did nothing to deserve it.

The idea that the community can police these things is a farce.

Take a little stroll through the I Pit __________ threads, especially the more recent ones, and let me know how that’s been working out.

This is a job for the staff.

[octopus]

I read it and I’m not convinced. Obviously there are no words one is compelled to use in English as numerous synonyms typically exist. But it will be interesting to see how this works in the pit if any characteristic that is correlated with immutable biological facts becomes verboten.

[GreysonCarlisle]

@octopus

But it will be interesting to see how this works in the pit if any characteristic that is correlated with immutable biological facts becomes verboten.

You’re expanding the scope too far. If a class of people have been systematically marginalized and mistreated because of that immutable biological fact, then yeah, it should be verboten.

I doubt that people with freckles would qualify.

[Whack-a-Mole]

I didn’t even ask a question.

[chela]

@GreysonCarlisle

@octopus

But it will be interesting to see how this works in the pit if any characteristic that is correlated with immutable biological facts becomes verboten.

You’re expanding the scope too far. If a class of people have been systematically marginalized and mistreated because of that immutable biological fact, then yeah, it should be verboten.

I doubt that people with freckles would qualify.

It’s a known fact Freckled people have been harassed and bullied. A friend as a child has had adults make fun of her freckles all the time one saying she got hers from standing behind a cow that shit on her face.

[GreysonCarlisle]

Have they ever been rounded up and put in the workhouse or the asylum? Forcibly sterilized?

[Babale]

@Whack-a-Mole

In the past, when someone said something vile or offensive, social opprobrium generally beat them back

Oh yes, who can forget how in 1776 some vile people said “let’s call ourselves a free country but enslave black people” but luckily “social opprobrium” beat them back.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Martin_Hyde

FWIW the euphemism treadmill is already well underway on this word. Due to playing various computer and video games I have exposure to communities of people much, much younger than myself and sometimes (unfortunately) am exposed to their speech. It is very common for people in such communities in their late teens and 20s to use the word “autism” or “autistic” the way “retard” and “retarded” were used as a “commonly accepted pejorative” say, 25-30 years ago. This is likely to eventually make using the term autism “problematic” even for its intended use (which is also what happened with the word retarded.)

Okay, and? If/when that happens, we’ll adjust the way we speak. Language is living, and that’s a feature, not a bug.

[k9bfriender]

Hmmm, so, talking about “public squares” and such does have me thinking, this isn’t a public square, it is actually owned by an organization.

So, looking to what that organization has to say about it, I get:

Op-Ed: Stop Using 'Retard' As An Insult

Rethinking 'Retarded': Should It Leave The Lexicon?

A Reminder About A Word We Shouldn't Use And Some More Thoughts On Avoiding...

Now, obviously, those are opinion pieces, and not official proclamations from the powers that be, but I do think that they should be considered as part of this discussion.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

Wait, are you saying that this board is owned by NPR? I’m confused.

[k9bfriender]

I believe that to be the case

Chicago Sun Times to be acquired by WBEZ, Chicago's NPR radio station

I was very interested to learn that Sun Times Media, the company that owns The Straight Dope Message Board, is set to be acquired by Chicago Public Media, the parent company of WBEZ, the NPR affiliate here. Here are the announcements from each: It isn’t a done-deal but must be pretty far along for it to be made public. I think it’s great news and it could really a boon for journalism in the region. It will be interesting to see what happens. I don’t read papers much anymore but I get th…

[Whack-a-Mole]

Wow…TIL…cool

[puzzlegal]

It’s owned by an NPR affiliate, not NPR itself. But yes, Chicago Sun Times was purchased by Chicago public radio.

[Whack-a-Mole]

I’m not sure of the point you are trying to make. Are you saying that social mores were different in 1776?

[Whack-a-Mole]

This is a hijack:

Can I donate to WBEZ and specify I want the money to support SDMB? I already donate to WBEZ.

I know that, usually, it is possible to specify the use of donated funds.

(Feel free to PM me an answer so as not to derail this thread)

/hijack

[Riemann]

@Whack-a-Mole

I looked in to this some more and, it turns out, this is exactly what happens and there is a term for it, the Euphemism Treadmill.

Maybe you should “look into” this thread more carefully, since the term was referenced twice already in this thread before you brought us your erudition.

@bump

it’s also why people get annoyed with the euphemism treadmill

@Riemann

The meaning of words does not derive from theoretical a priori reasoning. It derives from usage. It is an empirical fact of common usage that if I call you an idiot I am doing no more than comment on how I feel about your cognitive capacity as an individual. Whereas if I call you “retard”, it carries the connotation that I am attempting to demean you by placing you in a class of people, and I am implicitly disrespecting the human dignity of that entire class of people. The fact that this usage might not be totally logically consistent is irrelevant… There is also no a priori reason why the n-word should be a worse slur than many others, but it is nevertheless objectively much worse.

This may change. Part of the reason for the “treadmill” of language here is that as certain words become taboo in civilized discourse, nasty people co-opt different words for the same nasty purpose. It may be that in 10 years time some other word carries the same connotation as “retard” does today. And we cross that bridge when we come to it. But don’t mistake the evolution of language for a “slippery slope”.

If you think it’s too inconvenient to have to go to the trouble of modifying your vocabulary slightly a few times in your life to avoid dehumanizing a class of people - well, that’s not an argument so much as a statement of your own ethics.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Riemann

Maybe you should “look into” this thread more carefully, since the term was referenced twice already in this thread before you brought us your erudition.

I provided cites to experts. Maybe I missed others doing so. And, while I did not use those words I was describing it before them in post #40.

@Riemann

If you think it’s too inconvenient to have to go to the trouble of modifying your vocabulary slightly a few times in your life to avoid dehumanizing a class of people - well, that’s not an argument so much as a statement of your own ethics.

We have examples of what happens when you sanitize language. I have spoilered the below for frequent use of the “n-word”. It is Lee Atwater on how they moved away from “bad” words and went to what we call “dog whistles” today. The history since speaks for itself. But, at least you didn’t have to hear a word you did not like. Maybe if you and others did they would have been stronger in opposition to what happened.

You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.” SOURCE

[puzzlegal]

@Whack-a-Mole

I provided cites to experts.

It’s a common term that most of us are familiar with. And we all recognize that it exists and can drive words out of use from time to time. Honestly, i think it’s more common for words to become awkward because as a society we realize they are awkward in a way we didn’t care about before, however.

I dunno about you, but i need to learn new words all the time. Emoji, meme, Bitcoin, prox cards, … I’ve yet to be significantly inconvenienced by removing a word from my vocabulary that has become problematic. So far, the worst I’ve faced is a longish discussion what title to give the person who updates a club website when that person said they didn’t want to be called a webmaster. We settled on web coordinator, in parallel with several other club titles. This isn’t a case of “euphemism treadmill”, it’s a newer understanding that “master” has unpleasant connotations for many.

[Riemann]

@Whack-a-Mole

The history since speaks for itself.

The Trump era is what happens when bigots feel that they no longer have to hide their light under a bushel. Is it an improvement? What advantage has been gained by discovering exactly who these people are? Making it socially acceptable to be a bigot does not foster the progress of civilization, it fosters the spread and reinforcement of bigotry.

[chela]

Are you sealioning me?