Can we go now? Iraq parties demand U.S. cede control

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-03-27T191932Z_01_L27605414_RTRUKOC_0_UK-IRAQ.xml

I thought the Shiites were going to be tired of the American presence much later, since I thought the Shiites were one of the factions more in favor of our presence, but I figured out a long time ago that the longer the US stays, then it was more likely that even the Shiites would think that our stay had more to do with colonialism than Nation building.

Has this alleged massacre the item that will turn the Shiites against us, sooner rather than later?

What is Iran doing here being part of the negotiations? :confused:

If they asked us to go we should pack up and get…IMHO. They being the elected government of Iraq. Lets get the hell out if thats what they want…I’m thinking it would be for the best (for us anyway).

-XT

Sorry, but it’s got to be from the government (which hasn’t formed yet), not just “some Shiites”. And it doesn’t surprise me that the tide is turning. The ISF is making some good progress, but it’s largely controlled by the Shiites. It’ll be the Sunnis that beg us to stay, if they’re smart. If we’re outta there too soon, Abu Ghraib will look like a picnic compared to what the Shiites will do.

Iran doesn’t want a destabilized Iraq any more than we do, btw.

We can’t leave. We have to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here. And we’ve turned a corner!

Not to mention the rent we’ve already paid on those “enduring bases”

:confused: I would not see “Ruling parties” and “Shi’ite leaders” as “some Shiites” I think the report is dealing with what is pragmatically happening on the ground, we would like to hear that from the new government, but they themselves are not willing to form it, unless…

Well, I’m afraid either the Iraqis are going to get some deals that many Americans are not going to like, or we are going to force some actions that will turn also the Shiites against the US and the UK.

They are the victors of GW 2 so of course they need to be there. I expect they’ll be delivering flowers, chocolates and a big thankyou to the USA/UK for handing them such a massive strategic victory.

I wonder if they have the equivalent of Freedom Medals for the poodle and the chimp?

Is is possible to land helicopters on the Baghdad US Embassy roof?

:stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

Well - one lesson has been learned from Vietnam. We have a whole giant ‘green zone’ to land plenty of choppers in and those blackhawks can carry a whole lot more people.

On the plus side - i’m looking forward to having a whole lot more good Middle-Eastern restaurants to go to once the fleeing collaborators and their families find their feet.

And when it happens the Usual Suspects will be on the board here claiming with a straight face that the broadening of the restaurant trade was Bush’s plan all along.

Welcome to the topsy-turvy world of Iraq, where we don’t even know what side we’re on anymore. The government, such as it is, draws much of its support from its Shi’ite populist base. If we lose them, whose side are we on – the insurgents’? Actually, it’s pretty clear that our interests are most closely aligned with those of the ex-Baathist Sunnis. It’s just a matter of time before it comes into the open. Of course, our problem with those guys is that we still need to string Saddam up by his heels.

Yeah but … the big problem with retreats is that in the end there is a shrinking area of control and a rear guard. It ultimately gets down to one block or one building and a small bunch of people who have to run like hell.

And that’s the scenario for a well run retreat.

“Guard this here gate Abdul. We’ll be back for you and your family in just a minute.”

Well, what happens in a turbulent country on their border certainly is their business.

No John. I had the same initial thought (that it needs to be the government that asks us formally to leave) but that just doesn’t wash. This is so obviously a trumped up and excuse to get us to leave, and its coming from the movers and shakers (appearently) on the Shi’ite side. No, its time for us to begin withdrawl and bring the boys and girls home. Of course, even if we start today it will take several months. But I think we should start today.

I shudder to think what will happen to Iraq once we are gone. Its going to be ugly in the extreme. All those in this thread joking about helicopters and making veiled (and to my mind gleeful) Vietnam references…well, I wonder if they fully realize whats going to happen. Ah well, maybe they do and this is their version of gallows humor. Myself…I’m just sad.

That said: lets get our troops the fuck out of Iraq…RIGHT NOW!

-XT

Yes we do realise - that’s why we were opposed to it in the first damn place. Staying will make it worse.

And if the only humour on offer is black I’ll take it.

Some of us have been predicting a Viet Nam like ending for the last three years and have been regularly berated for it.

Just pigeons coming home to roost.

And hubris is pretty much always funny. Don’t blame us - blame the clowns that put the troops there and the people that cheered them on in the first place.

Then your (collective) powers of prediction are astounding…certainly better than my own humble efforts. I don’t agree that our leaving will make things better…but perhaps I am misreading again. If you feel better you were right…I was wrong. Dead wrong.

I figured as much. I don’t think anyone, no matter how much this makes their political rivals look bad, could be happy at the prospect of what will probably happen to Iraq when the US pulls out completely.

As I said, even knowing that, I think its time…time to begin our withdrawl with an eye to being out of there completely (even if our rent IS paid on those bases) by no later than the end of the year…preferably before then.

-XT

Well, no-one is happy about it but that’s what black humour is for. And as impeachement isn’t on the cards mockery is all we have.

The trouble is it didn’t take a crystal ball to know this venture was doomed. Bush et al just chose to ignore the warnings.

I’ve just finished reading Generation Kill and those marines, even as they were spearheading the assault, knew it was doomed before the war ended.

Doesn’t matter. Unless the government formally kicks us out, we need to do what’s in the best interest of the US. Now, that doesn’t mean I agree with Bush’s approach-- I don’t. I’ve been saying for over a year that we do need to set a timetable to get out. The ISF is being built up, finally, into a serviceable organization. Let’s give the Iraqis some incentive to accelerate the completion by telling them when we’re leaving. I don’t know exactly what that timetable should be, and I don’t know how many residual troops or advisors need to be left there longterm*, but I think we should start bringing our guys and gals home now, and be largely out of there next year.

*again, assuming the Iraqis don’t kick us out completely

Observing all the teeth gnashing and wrist wringing going on here, I am positively worried for lives and limbs of many highly esteemed board members.

Of course the real solution to the problem is electing Democrat POTUS.