Can we talk about hate?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I carefully thought about where to start this post, so I hope it isn’t moved.

What is the best way to deal with hatred?
I am not referring to anger, or dislike, or an instinstictive revulsion, but real hatred.

When we are the object of hatred, the immediate response is often to hate back.
Oh, now, that’s productive.

I have hated individuals. I’ve moved past that by deciding that forgiving does not mean forgetting; I can forgive without ever letting the person in my life every again.

I have hated a specific group of people (privledged Northern European descended Americans who sneer at the poor and recent immigrants). I’ve moved past that (well, I’m working on it) by recognizing a flaw I’ve forgiven in other, ignorance.

I rigorously remind myself that anger does not have to lead to hate. “Love the sinner, hate the sin.”

Does any-one have any better ideas? Especially on how to respond to hate?

2

While the OP certainly seems inspired, perhaps your topic is a bit broad. Did you have a certain circumstance in mind?

3

I think my reply was lost.

No, I do not want to be specific. My basic premise is that hate is just not a good thing.

It is not good for the soul, and it is a counterproductive response to hate. Hating sucks, hating back sucks worse.

(And I started hating someone else today. I’m very sad about that. and very, very angry.)

4

See, I’ve only really hated one person in my life - he absolutely took advantage of me in the worst possible way, and then mocked me for being so easily taken advantage of. I haven’t seen him in about 3 years, so I just got over it. I guess I keep myself from hating others by always trying to put myself into their shoes. Even if I disagree with them, at least I can usually tell why they did what they did, and it makes it easier to forgive. However, asking the world to do it is a bit tricky.

5

A wise man once said… (You know what? If I don’t know who said it, I probably shouldn’t assume it’s a man, should I?)

Well someone said…

“The opposite of love is not hate. It is indifference.” We usually can not hate someone who holds no importance in our lives.

My advice is to simply allow them to retain ownership of their own hatred. Then it will eat only at them.

6

Actually, hatred (thank you for using this - “hate” should stick to being a verb) can be useful, in very unpleasant circumstances. For example, if you are in a really dreadful relationship with someone who is wrong or even abusive to you, but whom you can’t seem to leave - sometimes it’s necessary to grow to hate them before you can build up the will to leave.

I don’t think there are really useless emotions - they all have their place - but outside of that place they can be quite dangerous.

7

Mandieliese: We have to be careful about empathizing too much, though, don’t we? Understanding is always good; one can’t really come to terms with anything one doesn’t understand. I’ll try to work understanding into my current problem. (But I am so hateful today BECAUSE I can not understand this person.)

Gilligan: On the second point, exactly! But this person doesn’t hate me. I have just been treated badly. (On the first point, I disagree.)

8

Oh, thank you. Hatred can be necessary to break free. I never thought of that; so I don’t have to fight the hatred, I can let it wash over me, and past me. Then go on. That, and charity (thank you, Mandielise) will help me through the next few days.

No, emotions are never useless, really. I never worry about my anger; that is usually direct toward specific events, and acts. Anger is easier to just express and let go.

But I am still interested in social hatred. How do we handle that without hating back?

9

From a person who has rarely become angry, and has never actually disliked a person in my life; I’ll tell you what I’ve observed from my self…

a.) I tend to understand people the instant a behavior occurs; I don’t tend to think of people in terms of having wills and personalities …

b.) I don’t actually take the time to care about people in that sense; to me any occurance is seen as a broader reflection of the nature of reality itself and how it weaves through people’s lives.

c.) I’ve always known that if people could see my life they would understand how insensitive behavior is; I feel fundamentally the same about myself in terms of others. I do not believe people do things without reason. I think intelligence works exactly the same in each and every human being on the face of this earth. The variations are experience and the pathways to which it traverses… I do not think there are different types of intelligence however…

It’s not about understanding people; but fundamentally striving to comprehend ‘what is’… I always think; "You don’t ‘kill’ people (i.e. attack them, gossip about them, judge them, tell stories about them, speak over them, smile at them etc…), obviously it’s me who has the problem with reality itself. The most logical way to solve it is to commit suicide, any other means is clearly hypocritical. If you don’t want to commit suicide than at least make sure what you do, is logically consistant in that you are not abusing people to a slow death. Everytime I think of what to say or do in a given context; I’m always simulating the millions of personality types that will be suicidally offended by a behavior. To speak it or do it, would then on my part be the equivilent of murder. Even if that person is not present, or they are only one out of a large group; while I can make friends and have sex saying and doing certain things at their expense; I still fundamentally carry them in my heart as if they were there… a human being of strife to be honored. Not only is the act or statement meaningless in the context of understanding how they take it in the first place, but the rewards achieved from it are so hollow that one may as well stop existing.

People who ‘hate’ (a word that connotates existential tolorance thresholds, to me) fundamentally believe that it is logical to defend oneself when attacked; that they are in some way, a better person, or priviledged in terms of their life experience; over that of another being. That it is more important that their will be expressed than that of another person; that ones very will is more important than that of another person. Strength of will and ability has nothing to do with it - fundamentally; someone deep down inside is taking a luxury, that is leaving many people starving in this life. I think maybe you understand that; as you are currently the victim of such ignorant greed, stolen glory. I can assure you, that by the time you have the ability to make them feel exactly as you do; you will not use it. For to do so, only turns you into them.

-Justhink

10

As an aside; you’ll find in life, that the majority of people reward you with pleasantries only when you speak in ways that apply pressure towards the indentured of other human beings. This is because they will often have the same pressure being applied; and yet by gaining attention from you that is incongruent with the dislike opercieved from that perspective; they can validate themselves psychologically as not actually being that way. It’s all pretty sneaky and covert for the most part…

Unfortunately, it creates a situation where people are only attracted to or reward people who kill other people; which is basically the same as contracting the hit themselves. It’s positive re-enforcement that seeks a psychologically covert validation from a perspective. People want to believe; and someone using strings, smoke, magnets and mirrors who has no clue, comes off as sincere - they are easy to believe, because the concious mind is not challenging this behavior existentially. Having near command level access to your indentured system is practically unheard of in people; most operate with it on automatic - this seeks efficiency rather than consistancy. There is nothing more efficient than using a persons own existential wall, agaisnt them to create a vulnerability or to propell them towards you in a way they deem willful of themselves. I suppose it comes to that statement of ‘taking the plank out of your own eye, before going off on the splinter in someone elses’. Try getting ‘angry’ at reality for a change, see what that does for you; how it effects the choices that come to light.

-Justhink

11

Justhink,

My response to your post is such a confusing mixture of agreement and disagreement.

So, let’s cut to the disagrement (always more interesting.)

Damn straight I think I have the right AND responsibility to defend myself; I might not be better than my attacker, but there is a good chance I am, because I did not attack.

Anger and hatred are very different things; now, thanks to Mac, I can see both as healing emotions.

And I am often angry at the world; the world is a cruel and unjust place. What does that get me? Poorer in material goods. I tend to donate money when I get mad at ‘the world’. (I refer to societies, not to the earth.)

All that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good [people] to do nothing.

On the other hand: be careful what you hate lest you become it.

Also: no-one will ever hate us so much as some-one who has wronged us.

Anyhelp on the exact wording of the above quotations would be appreciated. (Except the substitution of ‘people’ for ‘men’; that was deliberate).

12

This whole thread has me totally confused, so I am just going to respond to the OP.

I think hate, and also holding a grudge, hurts the person who feels it or holds it MUCH more than it EVER hurts the person you hate or hold a grudge against.

I believe in forgiveness. I believe in returning love for hate. You don’t actually have to DO anything about returning love for hate, but within your heart I think it is the best thing to do. I believe that the only person you actually hurt when you hate is you.

I believe that when someone expresses hate in an “objective” sense…ie, toward a group of people, all you can do is to say what you believe…explain that you cannot lump a whole group of people into a “bunch” just because one “bad apple” in the group deserved to be shunned or didn’t deserve your respect. People whose hate is ingrained aren’t going to listen no matter WHAT you say, but you might give people who just haven’t really thought seriously about the issue a reason to think again.

I believe that the best way to deal with lies or unkindness from someone else is to keep your mouth shut and live your life in such a way as to prove them wrong. Hating them, or fighting back, usually does no good and isn’t going to convince anyone of anything. People who know you will know that the lies were lies anyway, and people who want to believe the worst in you are going to do it no matter what you say.

Bottom line is, the only person you have any control over is YOU. Do you want to live your life with hate in your heart? If so, that is your choice. I think it is a hurtful choice, but…it is YOUR choice to make.

13

So hate’s a bad thing, now?

I think I read that in Duh Weekly.

Though one of the best related quotes I ever heard was from the series Homicide: Life in the Street. A character said “resentment is like taking poison and hoping the other person dies.”

14

It is true that forgiveness is the greatest gift one can give oneself.

But living one’s own life well is often not enough, even on the personal level. Let’s be honest, a well delivered lie will alway win over truth (truth is so complicated).

And on the social level …

well, let’s name names. Hitler. Was he an aberration on the human, or just very effective in achieve his goal?
Hell, I got on at 12 that the treaty of Versailles was responsible for World War II; how did Hitler manage to blame all Germany’s ills on the various ‘Undesirables’?

I think Hitler knew how to tap an undercurrent of hatred in people; that has to be fought, not just ofrgiven.

15

*Originally posted by j66 *

“”""My response to your post is such a confusing mixture of agreement and disagreement.

So, let’s cut to the disagrement (always more interesting.)""""

An observation riddled with its own existential problems =)

“”""“Damn straight I think I have the right AND responsibility to defend myself; I might not be better than my attacker, but there is a good chance I am, because I did not attack.”""""

The fact of matter is that you do not (inspite of The Constitution) even have the right to live (I think many people in their own way are trying to solve this very problem (I know I am) as we speak and sleep). As the existential problem currently stands, it’s pretty bleak! not unsolvable, but not positive enough to warrant a stance like that IMO, though everyone has their own circumstances). It’s a null set that is communicable; the same is true of your ‘friend’ in hate as well… this ‘right’ to live is just not tangible in a logically consistant way yet.
You may have behavior patterns that incite the attack (remember my thing about not seeing people as having ‘wills’). Were you to look back from an area of vast knowledge of human determinism, you may have chosen your hang-outs, conversation style or emotions differently so as not to trigger certain behavior into your life; cruel both to yourself and the other person in retro-spect. Or, the effect could have been socially agragate, and you were simply a ‘statistic’ required to ‘fill the books’ on that level - more likely a combination (…so to say “I can’t pinpoint it exactly”).

“”“Anger and hatred are very different things; now, thanks to Mac, I can see both as healing emotions.”"""

Without some degree of refection, they will become habits. They do help to dis-engage one from existential crisis (while changing the tension dynamic); which takes phenomenal energy to evaluate; often at the expense of anything relating to materialism; which can require an abandonment of heartfelt promises to others depending on your situation.

“”""And I am often angry at the world; the world is a cruel and unjust place. What does that get me? Poorer in material goods. I tend to donate money when I get mad at ‘the world’. (I refer to societies, not to the earth.)

All that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good [people] to do nothing."""

All that is necessary for darkness to flourish is for fuel to be consumed… Violating trust does not require much energy in contrast to other means of life. Working on the existential problem and working what many call a ‘real job’ is literally the only definition of work; the other is a vacation in compare. It’s like the saying, “It’s only work if you lose”; a pretty unamerican sentiment right now… What you see outwardly as ‘nothing’, can indeed be the product of the workload “squared”. ‘Good people’ have to work in over-drive to even the score without resorting to the tools of ‘evil’. Of course, then ‘evil’ just replies; “So we give your life meaning and increase the selective pressure to determine meaning as a whole on a species and societal level, HA! You should thank us!” Yes, indeed; ‘evil’ is a frustrating foe =)

““On the other hand: be careful what you hate lest you become it.””

A shift of societal focus towards existentially positive endevours does not come from force; rather from some sense that there must be a way to solve it for all of us; that the concept of ‘truth’ exists… the existential logic pulls on everyone, ‘evil’ or ‘good’; like: “Yes, but we can already prove that such behavior is not logically consistant; we know why it achieves results – stop being a dinosuar and help us out here.” Ultimately, nobody wants to be forgotten as irrelevant; like people who burned schizophrenics as witches just a while back… people so retarded now, that they are completely irrelevant in terms of their entire logical matrix; an oblivion of historical significance, never actually a conscious being while being alive.

“”""“Also: no-one will ever hate us so much as some-one who has wronged us.”"""""

They just need that hate to protect what they have stolen, something that often feeds on itself even if you realized that you ‘screwed up’ and wish you could do it over. There is also a fundamental fear that, given the opportunity, you’ll enact a retrobution when they confront you with their trust. An idea still fundamentally rooted in ‘hate’ thinking… that feeling of inherent superiority in rightousness; inspite of evidence that it doesn’t actually exist.

“”"“Anyhelp on the exact wording of the above quotations would be appreciated. (Except the substitution of ‘people’ for ‘men’; that was deliberate).”"""’

Hopefully it provided more to think about; (I don’t really think of my posting as answers) hopefully options of perpective. The rest is completely up to you.

-Justhink

16

Sounds like you have a hatred for hate. Thats not healthy :smiley:

17

One of my favorite jokes is:

I just can’t stand intolerant people.

You would be surprised how many people don’t get it.
Sigh.

18

Oh, I disagree; thesis and antithesis working toward synthesis is MUCH more interesting than agreement; I wouldn’t go so far as to say that growth is impossible without opposition, but a challenge is a big help in examining and defining a thought.

I don’t believe in many ‘rights’ either, except as they as specified by law, and agree with countless Supremes that no right is absolute, as rights will conflict and must be chosen between. (damn, my sentence structure is getting weird.) In fact, I can only think of two I actually believe in.

I may have been wearing an obviously expensive suit, a nice writst watch, might have been strolling slowly through the park: Really, now, wasn’t I looking to get mugged?

(Actually, I know exactly what I did; given the person I am, and the situation I was in, I was living, as me. And now I am dealing with the consequences. And asking for help.)

I could be annoyed at your assumption that I need to be reminded to reflect on my actions. No, that’s just you, very detailed.

But what does materialism and heartfelt promised to others have to do with one another? Other than not quitting a job because one’s family needs to be fed and housed? (And, no, not in a McMansion.)

Actually, I think that those who have wronged us hate us more simply because they do not want to believe they are bad people, so we must be; they protect their self-image, not that which they have stolen.

And one can not control one’s emotions, one can only control the expression. Of course, understanding all the roots of the emotions is necessary for growth.

As for the rest, I do not disagree, but, friend, you need to get out in the garden more. Compost the weeds; throw the tomato bugs on the compost instead of killing them; stake up the poor little plants that have been so over-bred they can not live without humans; then pick, freeze, boil, skin and devour the little darlings you spent all summer pampering and love them as you do.

There’s a thread I want to read; existential gardening. That would really break through my walls.

19

j66, in kindergarten, I befriended an older, but smaller and weaker neighbor. She was being held back a year, I was told, because she was too weak to get on the school bus. I spent the next 11 years watching her get picked on, teased, ostracized, and I think occaisionally beat up because she was small, weak, and unattractive. After 11 years of this treatment, when she was 16 or 17, she had a “nervous breakdown.” I wanted to hate the kids who did this to her, who did beat me up, teased me, ostracized me because I had the temerity to insist on being her friend. To be honest, I’m still not inclined to like them, but I did realize that if I retaliated, I would be no better than them.

Hate is certainly understandable, even human. How we respond to it, what we do with it, is our choice. To this day, I am not comfortable with excluding people automatically, calling people good or evil based on one aspect of their lives or personalities. I will vent hate into a song, a poem, or a good BBQ Pit rant (actually not very good, but I’m improving). If I can do so reasonably and without being insulting, I’ll try to take it up with the person inspiring the hate. I’ll also try to understand where he’s coming from, although there are times when I’m not thrilled with that particular place.

Justhink, I watched my best friend get hurt, and I tried to defend her while others stood by and did nothing. That feeling of being helpless and alone got pretty deeply embedded. While I do greatly respect your position, and I’ve got at least one friend who was also a devout pacifist, I’m afraid I can’t embrace it. It is admirable, though.

CJ