Perhaps so, but asking someone else to observe your religious preferences is, in a free and diverse society, inappropriate and rude. We should all be tolerant of others’ beliefs (or lack thereof) but that does not give us license to impose them, or behavior that is supposedly demanded by them, on our fellow citizens. That was the point of my suggestion.
A truly courteous person wouldn’t have asked the OP to change his behavior in the first place. In response to an outrageous request, one need not be rude, but can, as I facetiously attempted to do, point out the the inappropriateness of the request.
There is a political aspect to all this that hasn’t been commented on. Namely, whether it was the intent of the person in the OP or not, this type of situation can be used to control people, influence perceptions, and frame debates. Whether it’s “politically correct” language relating to people with disabilities or terms like “African American,” the “threat” of offense is used to passive-aggressively control people.
Are you aware, for instance, that in some circles the phrase “disabled person” is offensive? Why? Because it doesn’t put the person first. Literally. Someone with a Ph.D. and too much time on her hands decided that “person with disabilities” was preferable to “disabled person” because it emphasized the person instead of the disability. And the word went out that the other term was offensive and not to be used. As Dave Barry used to say, I am not making this up.
It is well and good and civilized to make reasonable attempts not to offend people gratuitously, but we should all keep in mind that in the U.S. there is (as yet) no constitutional guarantee of freedom from offense. Indeed, in a society that supposedly guarantees free speech, we should expect occasionally to be offended, and I would add, expect to learn from the experience that none of us is perfect and always right.
Diogenes, I don’t agree that the guy’s request not to use the word “God” lightly was neccesarily rude. If he threw a fit about it, it would be rude. Merely making the request isn’t rude.
Let’s stipulate that the person’s request was completely illogical, on the order of asking not to stack red books next to green books because they don’t like the way the colors clash. Your coworker makes a polite but silly request. The question then is, what is the polite way to respond? I really don’t see how you could be insulted by the request, even if you decided that courtesy did not require you to honor the request. Even if we stipulate that the coworker’s request was innappropriate, how do you respond to that? With loud cries of censorship and how they are violating your religious freedom? In other words, do you respond to rudeness with more rudeness, or do you try to de-escalate the situation? Is the request that outlandish that you should throw a fit about it? Is this the hill you want to die on?
Diogenes, commasense: Sorry guys, but it sounds like the guy in the OP made a reasonably civil request. In principle, it’s no different than if someone swore (ie, “Fuck!”), and someone else asked that person to watch his language. That’s not being rude.
Saying “thank God” or “God knows” is not profanity. This is not about offensive language it’s about one person attempting to impose religious controls over others.
Think of it this way. If an atheist said he didn’t want to hear a Christian say “thank God” because he was offended by the the word “God,” then everyone would agree that the atheist was being inappropriate.
Or what if a theist was saying “thank God” sincerely and another more conservative type asked that person to refrain from (sincerely) thanking God out loud. Isn’t the second person now imposing on the first person’s right of sincere religious expression?
What if I am some weird kind of Wiccan who doesn’t want to hear the word “sandwich” because ithe second syllable sounds like “witch?” Is this request deserve the same respect and the request in the OP? Because I don’t see a difference.
I agree with Diogenes. I would never say “fuck” or “shit” or use other similar swear words in “mixed company,” and being an atheist I don’t use phrases like “God knows” that much, either. But I don’t consider these latter expressions (including “thank God,” etc.) in the same class as “fuck” or other obscenities, because they are not calculated to offend. They are commonplace phrases used innocently.
People who take offense where none is intended and then try to proscribe the “offending” behavior are meddlers trying to enforce their “morality” on the rest of the world. Take the beam from thine own eye before trying to remove the mote from mine, brother.
It’s not “people”. It is one, single person, one that the OP met. It is not a general thing anoung X-tians, in fact, I have never heard anything like that, even with strong fundamentalist & even ministers. Using Gods name while swearing, sure. But not in such an innocuous manner as the OP mentions.
Is there realy a Debate if just one person did it? Isn’t that more of a PIT rant?
I think the level of civility is on the Christian in the OP. And it sucks to get into semantics, but there seems to be a difference between the following two comments:
1.“Don’t use that word around me.”
2.“That word offends me.”
Number 1 is an order, and save it coming from a person of higher status (teacher/parent/elder), sounds rude.
Number 2 is an observation and leaves it up to the person in the OP whether or not to continue using that word.
Among archeaologists, there is a word, an acronym really, for miscellaneous fragments that you can’t yet identify. They are Gok, and you put them in the Gok pile. It means “God only knows.”
Hmmm. You have a good point. If an atheist objected to me mentioning God, I would feel absolutely no obligation to change the way I talked. Still, basic civility says that I shouldn’t escalate the situation by saying “God” just to piss him off. Some of you are taking what appears to me to be an unneccesarily combative stance. Of course he has a right to make a request of you. You don’t have to honor his request, but he’s not somehow wrong just because he’s asked you to stop using a figure of speech which he doesn’t like.
This is about respecting a person, not a religion. In your absurd example above, I’d refrain from saying “sandwich” in your presence, unless the word “sandwich” held some special role in my personal beliefs or sacred rituals. In that case, we have a legitimate problem and we need to agree a solution. Barring that, I’m intelligent enough to either find a different word or just avoid you around lunchtime.
Of course I’d quietly think that both you and your request are silly, and that you’re intruding on my time by imposing it on me. But the the word “sandwich” isn’t that important to me, so I won’t continue saying it around you simply because I have the right to refuse. That would be childish. My compliance doesn’t make me a Wiccan or “under Wiccan control.” It just makes me a polite person who uses my own power of choice to avoid offending you, rather than confronting you.
It doesn’t matter if it’s table manners, choice of diet, talking on cell phones, sneezing, or choice of words. The basis of civility is societal tolerance for someone saying “do you mind not doing that?” and for the other person to sincerely consider not doing it, simply because they were asked nicely.
I’m a devout Christian. I hear people making references to God in frivolous ways all the time, and usually I don’t say anything. However, I have my limits of tolerance.
Once I had a co-worker who liked to holler “JESUS FUCKING CHRIST” every time anything went wrong (and, in his case, things went wrong quite frequently). I asked him pleasantly if he could find some other way of expressing himself. He did. The next time something went wrong, he screamed “JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ON A STICK.” So much for office camaraderie. :rolleyes:
This is obviously a matter of opinion, and mine is that if someone politely requests that you stop saying God, then you should. This is a matter of courtesy, not rights, as tomndebb has already stated.
I have my own beliefs, and I hold them dear. However, I also know that I should respect the beliefs of others, even if I disagree with them in principle. I am a Christian, and if an atheist asked me to stop saying “Thank God” or anything else, then I would. Heck, I would probably apologize for offending him in the first place. IMHO, any courteous person would place the true feelings of another before their own.
If you ask me to stop using certain language because it offends you, that’s fine. I’ll try.
BUT if you tell me to stop using certain language because it offends God, then we’re going to have a problem. I don’t believe in God, but even if I did, my offending him would be a matter strictly between the two of us.
Well I know of plenty who have precisely the same viewpoint. It is not that unusual. They wouldn’t demand you don’t say it, it would just make them unhappy when you did and would possibly tell you.
The problem they have is not the use of the word, but in its thoughtless and casual use as an expression without really meaning what you are saying. The same goes for that ubiquitous and most American of expressions; “Oh my Gaaaaawd!” You are not really calling on your god, you’re using it as a meaningless exclamation.