Can't understand why so many Americans woted on a clown like Bush

The BBQ Pit
81

Now, while as an American I would disagree with Coldy Clogs about not being superior to Europeans ;), I have to thank him for his interjection. Europe is different from the U.S. Don’t go using Quincy as a stereotype for Europeans, and don’t go using a stereotypical Texan as a stereotype for Americans.

Also, words like “Eurotrash” are just as racist as “Nigger”, “Chink”, “Beaner”, “Raghead”, etc. We’re supposed to be above racism, as racism is very ignorant and that’s what we’re all trying to fight, right? Right.

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Oh, and Coldy? I’m going to see if I can get an amendment passed to change the official name from “United States of America” to “United States of Fucking America”. :smiley:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Monster104 *

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No, but it’s limited what a 17 year old can have of real world experience. You are probably brighter than most of those on your age, but you have a tendency to paint the picture you have of the Republicans too perfect. You are simply too naive in my mind.
What I mean is that a the political ideologi to a party, either it is democtrats, republicans, or napster isn’t so perfect or fine when it comes to “showing their act”. It’s not so scientific as you like to believe.

84

This is exactly what I’m talking about. A burden gives another burden.
They who are more often sick than others have to pay more.

85

Especially since it abbreviates so nicely to “The U.S. of Fuckin’ A!”

Dr. J

86

Wow. An ongoing discussion on which health care system is best. Although I seem to remember a different initial question. Never mind that.

So, what are we going to discuss?
[list=1]
[li]Why vote for Bush?[/li][li]Which health care system? (aka: Fuck you USA / Fuck you Europe][/li][li]Where the fuck is QUINCY’’’ from?[/li][/list=1]
#1: I’m kind of wondering that myself, but I’d have to ask the same question about Gore. Like having to choose between the chair and the gas chamber.
#2: Bo-oring. Clean up the language and take it to GD.
#3: He doesn’t want to tell. Chances are he isn’t going to.

I did get my foot caught in my mouth in the other thread, but I still think nobody is obliged to tell where they’re from. He says Europe, that’s good enough for me. Yeah, his opinions are a little ‘out there’, but since this has become a Fuck You USA / Fuck You Europe shouting match, we’ve heard some pretty stupid opinions from the other side of the pond as well.

I like the new name for the States though. Gives the USFMC a pretty kick-ass name, doesn’t it? Now I am even scared of them.

And yes, my teeth really hurt. That’s why I’m pissed off like a motherfucker. Wanna make something of it?

87

As I said to a European friend (I’m Canadian but it applies equally well to the U.S.) who asked me if I wanted to live over there:

“It’s a fun place to visit. But you know, the reason my ancestors built my country is because we didn’t want to live here anymore.”

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Oh, QUINCY’’’, my overly capitalized and punctuated friend, the irony, the sheer irony that you would snap at Monster:

Critizing other people’s countries is usually as bad an idea as critizing other people’s marriages. You want a say in America’s election processes or choices? Fine, emigrate here and apply for citizenship. As my stepdaddy used to say when us kids squabbled, “Don’t worry about Bro. Worry about sugaree.”

89

We’re going to need a Wal Mart Special on watermelons in Texas if Gore gets in.

And UncleBeer, I enjoyed your post. LOL

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This is exactly what I’m talking about. A burden gives another burden.
They who are more often sick than others have to pay more.
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[/QUOTE]

Right. Now you have it. Just like:

  • Those who eat more pay more for food.

  • Those who drive SUVs pay more for gas.

  • Those who have more children pay more for taking care of them.

  • Those who have more children pay more for sending them to college.

  • Those who don’t take care of their teeth, have them injured in an accident, or are born with bad teeth pay more to have them fixed.

  • Those who have chronic illnesses pay more because they use more medicine, care, and doctor’s time.

What you are saying by going down the path you espouse is that those who use more should not pay more. This is counter to the very foundation of capitalism, and is instead the foundation of socialism. Of course, since you are “QUINCY Powers, International Man of Mystery”, I can’t say if this is a common theme in the politics of your country.

I am an insulin dependent diabetic. I also was born with poor teeth, and had them injured in a car accident. In my mind, I should be paying significantly more for my health care and dental care than most people. My prescriptions alone would run $1500 a year if not for the insurance, provided as a benefit by my employer. Do I object to my employer “socializing” my health care? No, since it is a benefit of the job I do, and is part of my compensation package - I have earned it.

However, the US is not a capitalist state at all in the strict sense. That is why we do have numerous low-cost, subsidized, and free health care programs. My SO is a doctor here who works for the University teaching hospital. They are mandated to provide care for anyone who walks in the door, regardless of whether or not they can pay for it. She gives out thousands of dollars of medicine and untold hours of her time each week to treat indigent, poor, or unemployed patients. These patients are not hassled over being in this unfortunate condition, they are merely asked to show that they cannot pay. The problem is, about 1 out of every 2 persons that tries to pass themselves as unable to pay really can pay - some of these people even have insurance, and don’t even realize it!

So many socialists have this view of the US of bodies stacked in the streets while the rich pull up to gleaming hospitals in their Rolls Royce’s. This is sad.

I could also branch into a debate about the quality of American hospitals and doctors, relative to that of European hospitals and doctors - but I won’t do that. There is a reason, however, that I have additional insurance to be med-evaced from any other country in the World back to the US should an emergency happen to me.

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Sorry, that’s not what you heard!? As someone mentioned before, this Board is for fighting ignorance. Cite, please. That means, tell us where you heard it. Did you hear it on the street or did you actually hear it from someone who might know something about it? As Monster said, thank you for proving your ignorance.

I stand by your right to have an opinion. However, don’t be adverse to having that opinion corrected if it is based on scurrilous and incorrect facts. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

92

I heard it from a reliable source about 1 year ago.
Maybe this was a special case, but it’s still relevant for the debate.

93

I would love to join in and talk about our National Health Sevice(NHS) in the UK but I would rather not be linked with QUINCY for the moment thank you very much.

I worked in a hospital as technician six years and know plenty about ours.

I could tell you all about its strengths and weaknesses and much about why they exist.

So far not one US poster has come even slightly close but this is not surprising.
The way the NHS is portrayed on US media is one of crisis, poor management and ineptitude.
I hope you don’t collect all your information this way.

Is there a vested interest in keeping health care in the US the way it is ?

Is there a chain of companies and individuals who would stand to lose out if the US were to adopt a National Health policy ?

I could point out that both Germany and France have systems of health care that are a mix of privately funded schemes and public subsidy, in fact there are some similarities to the US one except that universal coverage has been achieved.

Couple of other small things to point out, if you wish to buy private health care in the UK you are perfectly free to do so in schemes exactly the same as the US, in fact many of the companies operating them are the same, surely you don’t think that NHS treatment is compulsory and that there is no alternative ?

If private health care were so much better than state care then even a blind man on a galloping horse could see that just about everyone who had the means would reject state care in its favour.

If private medicine is so much better then why do private hospitals pay to make use of NHS facilities and staff ?
Why do Americans come over to the UK and give birth to their children here on so-called birthing holidays ?
Admittedly a small number but they still got their treatment for free, do you really imagine that those people would do this if our standards of health care were really as portrayed on your media ?
Come on folks use your logic here, our NHS is not free, it is free at point of use only, we pay handsomely for it through our taxes.
Our standards of care are very high, do you seriously think we would put up with anything less, no political party could even hope to gain office if it were otherwise.

There are areas where the US leads the world in health care but by no means in every one.Competition across the world is incredibly fierce, the pace of change is fast and furious, what was a breakthrough two years ago is already becoming mainstream all over the world.

In Europe, US healthcare is portrayed as being excellent providing you are in occupations where cover is provided and if you are of the lower third of the population then it is merely adequate and sometimes less so.(sometimes the portrayal is much less flattering than that)

I got that from our media, if you can spot the holes in it then maybe you will understand why I fail to recognise our NHS from your descriptions of it which are no doubt largely recieved from your own media.

So now we have that out of the way, unless you wish to continue with this failure to make minds meet, can we get back to the subject in hand and ask ourselves – why is QUINCY such a toolpiece.

Not that it needs any further explanation.

QUINCY I want you to think of yourself and your body as a machine to carry out certain tasks and functions, well honed, perfectly suited to its purpose.

say this to yourself

“I am more than just a man - I am a tool”

94

At least you are willing to admit that.

95

Quincy, you DOLT. Guess where Skinny’s from, huh?

96

Well well well
Major Feelgood and Monster, this is something you both should read. Maybe you will see that what I wrote about our (and your) health care was not so mindless after all.
:D:p:cool:

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I am (and was) fully aware that he’s from Europe. If that’s what you mean.
I was just so amazed when some of the other Europeans finally started to agree in what I wrote -or parts of what I wrote.:cool:

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Hey Quincy, guess what? I never once said anything about the UK health care. Go ahead, read all my posts. Not once did I say that the UK health care, or any current European health care is bad. I just said a nationalized health care is very socialist and not a democratic ideal. I also said that a system like that has a very likely chance of being corrupted or managed inefficiently. I concluded that nationalized health care would be harmful to the U.S. because of those possibilities. I have no doubt in my mind that national health care would end up exactly as problematic as HMO’s have become.

The reason I got into depth about health care in the first place is because Gore has very socialist viewpoints and supports national health care. He would lead our country away from democracy, slowly but surely taking power from the people and the states and giving it to the federal government.

That is another reason why I would support Bush. Bush has a conservative policy concerning the U.S. I believe his administration will have better foreign policy as well, since Gore will continue much of Clinton’s policies, most of which are extremely harmful to the international community.

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Maybe not in direct words, but it’s pretty obvious that you think they are bad. I can infact read a bit between your lines.

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This is of course a very huge threat to the democracy.:slight_smile: I’m starting to think it’s only the Republicans who feel that this threatens the democracy.
Actually I think you are mixing the ideal of democracy with the ideal of freedom here. It’s a question on how much power the democracy should have and how extencive it should be. I can’t see how such a basic thing in society as health care could be the big threat though. It’s a very basic thing we’re talking about.

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You could be right, but I think that we both shall agree that this is something that is most likely to happend only in USA.
I think you are too fixated around money, capitalism etc. I also think that this have something to do with different historical traditions.

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That’s some pretty strong word. I see your point, but I think that the question about national health care are a bit more complex than so.

Hmmm. I can only see a more pro-israeli politic comming. I don’t think that Clinton’s foreign policy are so much more harmful than the policy of his predecessors was.

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If you start reading in between what I’ve said, you start making assumptions of what I think and then you start trying to put a spin on what you think I think. Please don’t do that, as it will probably only cause me to start getting upset. I do not like it when people twist my words to mean something out of my original context, or when people tell me what I “really” think.

That’s the whole concept of having different political parties. Democrats think we should have a larger, more powerful federal government. They also have a very liberal interpretation of the elastic clause in our constitution. Republicans fear large, powerful governments, as they are more easily corrupted and often go astray from a democratic system of government.

Democracy is the ideal of freedom! That’s whole point of having a democratic government. A democracy is a bunch of basic things tied together. When you take away one basic freedom, right, or power held by the people and give it to the government, what prevents the government from taking away another small, basic thing? You know what happens then? The people become opressed (Which is why we also have the right to own guns).

While it is a major flaw of our political system, I must agree that the American government is being manipulated by lawyers, the media, and special interest groups. And damn right I’m fixated around a capitalist economy. A capitalist economy has the people owning the resources and means of production, which means the people have complete freedom. When the government becomes involved, things go to shit. This is the reason why our economy is so strong.

The last part of my previous post was a worst-case scenario. Do I truly believe Gore will strip us of our freedoms and rights? Not really, but I do believe he will start a trend of taking away little things here and there, which could potentially lead to major problems elsewhere.

Which takes us back to the original point of why so many people would wote for Bush: He’s a conservatist (Nothing wrong with not wanted to take away a Democracy), he’s capable of reaching across party lines, and he has a very experienced running mate with him.