Well, depending on how tomorrow’s appointment at the mechanic goes, it may be time to get a new car. The one I’m driving (1994 Nissan Sentra, 50K miles) has a leaky wiper reservoir, some fuel pump issues, and a busted air conditioning. Given the age of the car, I’m probably not willing to throw much more than $500 at it to extend its life. Plus, I was single when I bought the car, and now I am on the verge of marriage. Add to that the fact that we have one dog already, and are thinking about adding another plus having human children, and we’re starting to think that, despite our liberal guilt attempts to avoid it, despite our strenuous desire to find another way, that we may need to invest in a larger car, possibly a small SUV. (something the size of a Hyundai Santa Fe, Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4).
This will be the first car I’ve actually purchased on my own, as my father was with me when I bought the last one. One technique I’ve heard of for buying cars involves faxing dealers in your area the specs for the car you want and letting them undercut each other in order to get your business. (This is the Motley Fool recommended method). This strikes me as having a certain appeal as it relies on the dealer’s natural desire to make a sale.
Since the Fool wrote their columns, though, I’ve noticed that a lot of car manufacturers now have a “request a quote” feature on their websites along with their online “build your car” features. I’m curious as to what kinds of offers you get from these “request a quote” services, and would appreciate any thoughts or accounts from other members.
I did this when I bought my CR-V earlier this year. I even contacted dealers in WA and OR, since there is only one Honda dealer here. The local guy finally came down to within $200 of the guy in OR, and I bought the vehicle for just over $22K (which, FYI, is a good price for this vehicle).
You should look at Edmunds.com and at www.intellichoice.com for ideas about how much you should be paying for a car. There is no substitute for doing your homework on this one, and dealers will usually go along with a knowledgeable consumer, since they make a killing from rubes who walk in and pay sticker price.
Oh no, I fully plan to do all of my homework re: pricing beforehand. I was just curious whether the “request a quote” service provided markedly better or worse pricing than the “dangle red meat in the tank and let the sharks fight it out” method.
Chefguy, which method did you use - the fax method or the request a quote method? And how do you like the CR-V?
I used the quote request for my local dealer and found the email addresses for the ones outside the state. The quote from my local dealer was too high and I continued negotiations via email, although they weren’t too happy about doing it that way, since it’s difficult for a salesman to twist your arm verbally.
The quote request is always accompanied by an invitation to ‘come in and talk about it’. That’s fine, if you know what you are willing to pay and are going to stick with it.
If you have more than one dealer in your area for the car you want, I would fax the sales managers and then try to get a bidding war going. But if the final offer is still significantly higher than the fair market price on Edmunds, tell them you’re going to a different brand if they can’t meet your price. I would tell them your target price right up front.
I bought the CR-V EX, which is their top shelf model, and I really like it. Rides well, 6-CD changer, moon roof, good acceleration, 22mpg in town, seats five, high resale value, etc. I paid just over $22K with a manual tranny. An auto tranny will tack another $1,000 on.
I see kputt is still pimping for GM cars. The Trailblazer is a poorly rated vehicle. I would avoid it. If you want to go with a domestic brand, try the Jeep Liberty or the Ford Escape (which is coming out in a hybrid model next year).
For FWIW, you don’t need to buy a gas guzzling SUV. For about the same price, you can get a VW Jetta Wagon. I have one, with the TDI engine which has lots of torque and averages about 45 mpg, which is excellent, as I am always hauling extra crap around and driving 90mph while I’m at it. We have two dogs who have their palatial bed in the cargo area, leaving the passenger area for passengers or cargo when we travel with them. When we don’t, we fold down the seats and have a huge sleeping/hauling area (a ton of stuff from IKEA or wherever can fit back there and that hatch sure is handy).
Don’t believe the reliability rating in Consumer Reports, it is based on issues which have been resolved. If you buy a TDI, you can get incredible support from fellow members of www.tdiclub.com. VWOA itself is not a pleasure to deal with, but the cars are a pleasure to drive.
The new 2004 TDI engines have more horsepower, and when you want even more, you can chip it for not too much money. The ESP (an electronic stability program for anti-slip) is a great feature and well worth it. We love our wagon–it is incredible to be able to drive all the way from San Francisco to San Diego (or in your case for example, from Chicago to Nashville) and still have about quarter tank reading–at least, that was my experience the last few times I’ve made the trip down and back.
Plus, you can run biodiesel and really feel good about yourself.
I just throw this out there, as when I was looking for a new car, I thought I was going to be stuck with an SUV type vehicle, but I heard about the mileage of a TDI and was hooked.
Plus, it comes with standard features that other makes nickel and dime you to death for, and an incredibly safe car with driver, passenger front airbags, side curtain and side beam airbags in the front and back. A reinforced LATCH sytem for a baby seat, as well. I hated sounding like a commercial, but these are great, versatile, safe wagons, and I love mine.
Having owned a '96 Blazer and now a '00 Bravada I have to say this: GM made one step forward and two steps back with the new Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada. Drove the regular version and the EXT and in my opinion they aren’t any better than the vehicles they replaced. That new 4.2l inline engine is supposed to be smoother and more powerful than the 4.3 but it sure didn’t feel like it. With that extra 1k pounds of heft it felt like a pig. The interiors are very cheap looking, especially for a 30k dollar LTZ, and the seats are uncomfortable.
If you want something spacious that’s not an SUV I’d say get a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis or an Impala (Those impalas get great gas mileage).
Add me to that list too. Based on the OP, I do not know why one with that experience would want another rice burner
Figure a realistic discount price and stick to it. Talk about dealer added options after you agree on a price for the car/suv, many extended warrantee’s are BS and way over priced.
Jeevmon- I got email quotes from dealears through cars.com when we were buying our Honda Civic 2 years ago. I think the dealers realize that a lot of people are using the quotes as a method of determining best price so they usually give close to their rock bottom price. To test this, we showed up at a dealer after receiving an email quote of 15,100. We didn’t mention the email quote and after ten minutes of discussion, the dealer had only gone from 16,900 down to 15,900 before we left (we weren’t ready to buy that day, so we didn’t get into the nitty-gritty, I’ll-have-to-talk-with-my-manager discussions, but I’m pretty sure we weren’t going to do much better than the email quote). After much shopping around to insure the best price we ultimately bought from a (different) dealer at the same price they quoted us via email. They couldn’t negotiate further on price, but they were willing to include floor mats ($275 value) in the price.
Funny, I have exactly the same reaction to domestic cars. The Sentra has given me close to ten years of basically hassle free service. That it has started to develop some mechanical issues after ten years of use is not all that surprising. Yes, the mileage is relatively low, but most of that is city/ local driving, which is harder than the highway.
I would guesstimate the average lifespan of cars today to be about 7 years. I’ve had nine, close to ten out of mine. And the car is still perfectly driveable. The air conditioning is only a problem for another few months, wiper fluid is an inconvenience given that most gas stations have windshield cleaners, and the fuel pump is not a killer situation. I just had one rather disturbing instance where it didn’t start when I still had some gas (though not a lot) in the car. I’m not even 100% sure anything is wrong with it. The decision to buy a new car would basically be determined by the cost of fixing this one and the fact that my lifestyle is outgrowing a compact car.
So, I’ve had a good relationship with my Sentra, which is why I’m considering another Japanese car (a lot of which are made in America). Add to that the fact that my parents currently have two cars: a 1991 Toyota Corolla wagon and a 1989 Nissan Maxima, whch both still run great. That’s a twelve year old car and fourteen year old car for those paying attention. We also once had a 1984 Buick Century. That car had to have its engine replaced three years into ownership, and was a source of constant aggrivation and hassle for pretty much the entire time we owned it.
I too am buying a new car (next month). I’m going for the Infiniti FX35 which Consumer Reports just recommended. As far as the ‘rice burner’ comment goes…well, up until now I’ve owned a Dodge, Ford, and currently have a Chevy. All were close to dead (or dying) at 100,000 miles, and I always baby my cars. Everyone I know who has bought a Toyota, Lexus, or anything else Japanese that doesn’t take care of their cars gets 150,000 miles minimum out of their cars, so I’m going to Japanese route this time.
My action plan was to get the invoice pricing off Edmunds.com, and then check out some of the enthusiast sites (Freshalloy.com comes to mind) where I guarantee the #1 most common message posted on all the message boards is “what did you pay for your car?”. From this site, I see people are getting dealers as low as $500 over invoice. By September when 2004s come out, I intend to get a 2003 for $300 over invoice.
The other advice is:
ALWAYS be prepared to walk away
Remove as many items from the car dealer equation as possible. That is: Sell the trade in car first (preferably via private party) and bring in outside financing (credit unions are great for this). Now all you are dealing with is…the honest to God price of the car and no shenanagans can take place (i.e. screwed on trade in, high/ long finance terms)
Set a maximum not-to-exceed price in your head and STICK WITH IT. Also figure out the tax ahead of time, or surprise, the final price will be a lot higher, even if you do get the dealer below the not-to-exceed price because of other ‘fees’ they can make up on the spot.
If you’re looking to haggle for the price, stay away from Toyota. Although excellent vehicles and all, last I heard, they are becoming somewhat like Saturn in the fact that they don’t haggle (My Matrix XRS was bought at sticker price).
I figure with the “big 3” trying to out do each other with rebates and incentives, get a cheap domestic and use the money you save for repairs. If you want something reliable but relatively expensive stick with imports (MP5, Matrix/Vibe, Rav4, Santa Fe, Aerio, Imprezza (not the WRX) etc).
IMO the Focus is also a pretty good buy. I would personally stay away from the Jetta’s, I found their cabin quality fairly poor (in the 2002 model, maybe it’s better now) but the TDI engine is VERY hard to beat. It was my next choice next to the Matrix.
I was wondering if you had put down 50K Miles in a typo. But 10 years is pretty good for any car.
Somehow, whenever I travel on business, I always end up with a Ford Focus (probably because I always rent from Hertz). While the engine definitely has a lot of pep, I found the side mirrors to be entirely too small, and the positioning of the doors is such that there was always a huge blind spot over my left shoulder such that I couldn’t necessarily see a car coming up alongside me.
But that’s my subjective experience. I wasn’t really looking for recommendations as to cars to buy, but rather a comparison of the “get a quote” method of obtaining real pricing information as compared to faxing requests for bids to a number of dealers.
Back on my diesel stump, you can reasonably expect a diesel engine to last long after everything else about the car is out of date. Hell, 60,000 miles is “just broken in.”
And after your first engine break-in oil change at 5,000 miles, you change your oil every tenK, as long as you’re using an oil rated for your diesel engine, like Rotella or Delvac 1.
Compared to the maintanence costs of a gasser, diesels are incredibly economical–my estimated fuel cost for the year is about $466, and the maintanence intervals are longer than a gasser. Plus, as I mentioned, the support of other diesel enthusiasts means I can save a lot of money by doing it myself with the help of others. We basically have parties to change oil and timing belts.
Drive a car you enjoy and which will last, not a trendy piece of tin.
As far as the buying experience goes, ditto what many others said: call around, get internet quotes, build the car at the website–make sure you know the invoice price on all the options you want and what everything should add up to, and if they make a math “mistake,” (lots of scrap paper scribbling) just walk out. The Motley Fools have a great plan and information, which you’ve indicated that you have already read, so you should do fine. Bottom line is if you’re happy with the car you got at the price you paid.
I was so calle d pimping for the trailblazer because it’s a nice vehicle.
“see kputt is still pimping for GM cars. The Trailblazer is a poorly rated vehicle. I would avoid it. If you want to go with a domestic brand, try the Jeep Liberty or the Ford Escape (which is coming out in a hybrid model next year).”
When I bought my current car, it was essentially my first time in a new car dealership, too. When I went in by myself, even having done my homework on price and trade-in value, I was treated like crap to the point that I called one sales guy a condescending pompous ass and walked out on him. So for starters, be glad you’re not a woman.
So what I did was research the newspaper ads for my exact make and model (I’d already driven it as a rental for 1200 miles inside of a week in California, over al kinds of terrain, and knew it was what I wanted. I love my Sentra!). I found an impossibly low teaser ad and took it in to the dealership, who responded by honoring the ad price, but offering $300 for my trade-in (blue book value then about $1200).
I then walked out, went to another dealership (with my then-boyfriend, who had done this before and is a much harder bargainer than I have the stomach for), told them about the offer from the other dealership, and that if they could beat it, they’d have my sale. They did, and so they did.
A couple of other points: I would have tried to sell my old car independently, but I was having mobility issues with my leg and the car was really about to go kaput, so I was in more of a hurry and needed the trade-in cash. Financing wasn’t a variable; I had a loan guarantee from my credit union with a better rate by far than what the dealer was offering, anyway. And keep your eyes open at the dealership: I bought a floor model, and between my signing the contract and them delivering the car around back, they fucking removed the floor mats! (dealer price something ridiculous like $150). I yelled at them, and they gave me back the floor mats.
P.S. After I bought my car, one of my co-workers with the same make and model asked what I’d paid for it (he considered himself an experienced negotiator). I’d paid about $1,000 less, which is not bad on a small economy car. He was pissed!
