My coworker took her car to a Mazda dealer, and they recommended the following:
Power steering system flush, $130.00
Air induction system service, $220.00
Brake system flush, $130.00
Automatic transmission flush, $190.00
The car is a 2000 Mazda Protégé with about 31,800 miles on it.
Coworker reports that she has no issues with anything on the car. It works as it’s supposed to. She takes it in for oil changes every six months, and these are things the dealership says she ‘needs’.
Are these things really necessary on a low-mileage car in a fairly ‘clean’ environment (Seattle)? Or does this sound like the dealership trying to take advantage of a woman who doesn’t know anything about cars?
She notes that they did not recommend a bumper flush.
Actually, the information is C&P’d. She doesn’t drive much, and usually uses public transportation. It really is a 2000.
I could see them being reasonable if the car was driven a normal amount. But she wonders (and now I do) whether they are reasonable for this car, with its ‘sedate’ usage. (FWIW, she’s had other mechanics tell her she needed new brakes. When she took the car to another place, that place said the first place was full of it and that her brakes wer fine.)
WTF is “air induction system service?” Replacing the air filter? There’s really nothing else that needs to happen. Go to Autozone, buy a filter for $10, put it in yourself. Takes about two minutes.
When it comes to maintenance, I tend to stick to whatever the car owner’s manual says. The dealer often differs from that book, but they have an incentive to sell you as much service as you’re willing to buy, whether your car needs it or not.
yes, especially if trips are short enough where the engine doesn’t have a chance to reach and maintain normal operating temperature. Oil has to be changed because it gets too contaminated for the additive packages to deal with. rare use on short trips will allow contamination to build sooner.
The answers should lie in the glovebox. She should just stick to doing what it says on the maintenance schedule, which should include a time-based intervals. I seriously doubt the “air induction flush” is mentioned in her (or any) owner’s manual, so unless she’s having some sort of problem forget that one. The other three might be mentioned in the manual and might be due, but I’ll still bet they’re just upsells.
Also, there’s really no reason to be taking a car this old to the dealership when any independent mechanic can work on it just fine for much less. There’s dealers out there that are really good to their service customers of all car ages, but given the “wallet flush” items they’re pushing I doubt this is one of them.
If it is that old, it probably does need the fluids changed, especially if they haven’t been flushed out before now. The only one I really question is “air induction system service”. What exactly does that involve?
The prices seem a bit high to me, but it is a dealer and their prices do tend to be high.
Eh, depends. The car manufacturers say so, and I tend to believe them. The only real issue I am aware of is that water will condense out of the air and will mix in with the oil (well, sorta - water and oil don’t mix very well). This isn’t a big deal for most cars since the water vapor just gets flashed into steam and expelled out of the engine. A car that is driven for so few miles may not get hot enough to expel the water, so an oil change would definitely be recommended periodically. If you are in a really dry region though this may not be necessary.
I’d keep a sharp eye on the exhaust system as well. Another water vapor related problem is that you can end up with water in the exhaust due to condensation. Again, not a problem for most cars since the exhaust gets hot enough to flash it into steam and you don’t end up with water sitting. In such a low mileage car though the water can end up causing major rust problems in the exhaust.
A lot of gaskets and rubber seals and the like can also dry out and fail if the car sits too much.
Having just come of a six-year ownership of a car without power steering or an automatic transmission, I won’t address those points. But I absolutely think that the brake fluid ought to be changed every two years. That stuff gets nasty and there’s no doubt that I can feel the differerence. I think of it as a no-compromise safety issue.
Water actually mixes quite well with motor oil. Motor oil contains emulsifiers that break the water into tiny droplets and disperse it throughout the oil. If you get a lot of water into the oil (drive just two miles every day from December through February), you’ll get a lot of water in the oil, compromising its lubricity.
Short trips are bad, but one long trip is not. Driving the car a mile a day for six months is harsh; you’ll want to change your oil after that. Driving the car once for 180 milles, then parking it for the remainder of the six-month period? Save your money, don’t change the oil.
Power steering system flush, $130.00
Many of my colleagues call this a “wallet flush.” Yeah, the fluid can get nasty looking and smelling (usually takes WAY longer than 30K miles), but the incidence of power steering component failures (racks/gears, pumps) is very, very low.
Air induction system service, $220.00
Presumably a throttle body cleaning, as mentioned. Might actually be called for at 30K on some engines, depending on type of use and brand of oil used. I’d expect it to be half that price, though.
Brake system flush, $130.00
Could well be legitimate. Brake fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture from the air whether or not the car is driven. Price strikes me as about 30% high.
Automatic transmission flush, $190.00
Not unreasonable at that mileage, although Mazda doesn’t list it (at all) in their maintenance schedule (which doesn’t mean there’s no value to it, however). I would decide based on the condition (look and smell) of the fluid. Again, seems ~30% high.
Are these things really necessary on a low-mileage car in a fairly ‘clean’ environment (Seattle)?
Necessary, no. Beneficial, maybe, depending (e.g., does the throttle body actually have carbon deposits? Is the tranny fluid dark and burnt smelling?).
Or does this sound like the dealership trying to take advantage of a woman who doesn’t know anything about cars?
More likely a shop that pushes hard to sell, and they probably do this to everybody.
She notes that they did not recommend a bumper flush.
Give them time, they’ll think of it.
The time frame (six months) is a somewhat arbitrary guess. What really matters is the miles driven and (most importantly) the TYPE of miles driven. Short trips are killers here.
I think that with a car that old that the maintenance was a pretty good idea and if anything will be preventative maintenance that will allow her car to go another ten years.
I do think those prices are high, as it was a dealership, and she could have gotten them for much lower looking through the coupon mailers that come in the mail. But, one advantage of a dealer is that they do use the OEM specified fluids and parts and follow (or should follow) the procedure in the service manual which will include some other checks, etc. A lot of service stations will use generic fluids that are “OEM equivalent”. This might be cheaper in the short run but even since the early-90s even GM has specified a specific GM transmission fluid that is best with their transmissions. Same thing for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. A lot of people ignore this and after having conversations with people (via online forums) with people that have transmission failures there is a proportionally higher amount of transmission failures with the generic fluid versus the OEM. So, that 30% higher cost is probably due to the Toyota brake, power steering, and transmission fluid.
Even with my friend, who owns a service station, uses the OEM transmission fluid for any car that he services. He says it costs a whole lot more but is worth it in the end. But, he will use “whatever” brand oil, power steering, and brake fluids.
This all goes back to if she wants to keep the car for a long time. If she does then I don’t think this was a lot of money considering what even a crappy car costs now a days.
As a side note, I would recommend for her to also flush the radiator fluid. But, look in a mailer for a local service station. OEM specific fluid is not required for that.
Based on my extensive automotive background and mechanical engineering degree I change the oil in all of the cars in my care based roughly on number of times they are started. Regardless of how far they are driven each time they are started.
Oil should be changed about every 400 starts (approximately 3 months, 4 starts a day)
Coolant should be changed every 2-3 years even if the car is not driven at all due to galvanic reactions in the cooling system between different metals. This is NOT a flush, just drain and refill.
I have only ever seen two cars that needed a flush, one was due to improper cleaning of the casting sand during manufacture, that broke loose and blocked up the heater core and the other was due to a previous owner putting something into the cooling system (I assume trying to stop a leak) that turned to slime and blocked things up.
I have rebuilt more than 200 automatic transmissions and know the engineering backwards and forwards, if the fluid is bad, in almost all cases the transmission needs to be rebuilt as it is the slipping of clutches that is causing heating and discoloring the fluid in the first place. Flushing fluid is a waste of money.
If the brakes are spongy, Bleed them, if the fluid is nasty looking or has absorbed water, you really need to rebuild the entire system, putting fresh fluid in a semi corroded and worn brake system won’t make it last longer or be any safer.
Power steering: Some systems without coolers do run hot and may require a fluid change to introduce new additives, no reason to flush it unless you really like to spend money.
Air induction system service? Clean out the bugs and change the air filter. I am very sure they are not talking about throttle body service or they would have put that on as a line item and extra charge.
I agree with GreasyJack that any preventive maintenance needed will be called out in the owners manual. Or online
All of my cars make it past 200K miles in fine mechanical condition. I have personally owned over 200 and taken care of many more.
In my experience, this is necessary at some point. My engine light came on sometime after 100k mi. for lack of sufficient air flow due to carbon buildup in the manifolds. Probably cheaper at an independent shop, as others have said.
