Car service question (ABS)

Factual Questions
1

I have a 2004 Ford Escape. As usual, the warranty ran out in November and now I get to go for my first non-maintenance service on it :slight_smile:

Here’s the deal…apparently I have ABS on this vehicle. I have never driven a car with ABS. I never noticed ABS on my car before. Not until I had to go in for this recall did it even occur to me that I had ABS. I either am a really awesome driver who never hits the brakes hard or am just oblivious.

So I had my dad take it in for that recall at the end of April, since he’s retired and I work all day, it’s more convenient for him. They told him that they don’t actually do any work on that recall if it’s not needed, but they do check to see if it’s needed. So I am not sure if they replaced anything but obviously they took some things apart to check the status of my ABS.

Towards the middle of May, I start noticing my brakes are acting weird. I’ll be driving along at 35 MPH and slow down to make the turn onto my street, and my brakes go “thump thump thump.” I complain to my “backyard mechanic” boyfriend that my brakes are going, he says they’re not, that’s just ABS kicking in.

Even though I don’t drive much, I start noticing this “brake problem” more often. Cruising along, go to make a normal (not fast) stop, “thump thump thump.” One day, I make a bit of a hesitant stop in the middle of the road as a deer jumps out - there’s NO “thump thump thump.”

Boyfriend suggests the ABS sensors might be dirty. He takes a look, says they’re clean. He also takes it for a spin - we go 50 MPH then slam on the brakes - no “thump thump thump,” the wheels just lock up and squeal to a stop. Says he “well, that SHOULD have made ABS kick in…so that’s not right.”

So I call the dealership that did the recall. They say that they have seen this before, but what they did for the recall would NOT have affected the whatever-a-ma-bobs that make the ABS kick in (some sort of ring??) but they will look at it/fix it if I bring it in. Basically they’re saying I need to bring it in for a regular fix, not a free fix because something they’ve done wrong.

My delimma is this - I could just take it to my dad’s mechanic down the street (whom I haven’t seen in ages due to the fact that we’ve all got new cars now). My dad says that his guy won’t be cheaper but he’s much closer and my dad trusts him. It’ll be easier all around.

But is there a chance that the dealership DID screw up my ABS and would fix it for free? I am guessing not…but I am hoping one of our mechanics here could tell me if it’d be worth taking to the dealer on the off chance that it’s their fault. I wouldn’t know if they were lying and said it wasn’t their fault…my dad wouldn’t know. My boyfriend’s on the fence about it. I need more opinions.

2

Question. When you did the trial panic stop from 50 mph did the tires leave heavy black skid marks the full width of the tires or all 4 tires, or did it leave a light less than full tire width mark from less than 4 tires?
If the answer is the latter, my off the cuff answer is that the ABS is working.
What can cause ABS to activate prematurely? Several things. A dirty pulse ring (Picture a toothed wheel with a magnet nearby, each time a tooth goes by the magnet the magnetic field changes, and that information is sent to the ABS control unit. If a pulse wheel is dirty, or the magnetic pickup is dirty, the signal can get confused, and cause the system to think one wheel is turning at a slower / faster speed than the other, and ABS kicks in.) this is fairly common. Also if a pulse wheel for some reason gets out of position the signal can be degraded. A bad magnetic pickup can also cause issues, as can electrical interference from other electrical items in the car ( I had a car that went into full ABS activation at a stop light due to interference from the ignition system!). A bad ABS control unit is also possible, but probably not too likely.

The recall: It is quite common for recalls to be a check this and only if it is out of line do a repair. (check the mounting bolts for the framulator, if they are tight, no further work is needed. If they are loose then replace the framulator mounting bracket and bolts with kit 999-OU812) I do not know the details of the recall, so I can’t comment further. is it possible that they screwed something up? Sure, but don’t hold your breath. Recalls are something that the technicians do a bunch of, so they are usually routine, and not often screwed up. But there is always that guy Murphy standing there in the shop just waiting… There is also a possibility of fraud, the technician did not detect a problem, charged out the parts for the repair, but did not do the repair. (This is the money for nothing trick by the mechanic) and now the problem that the recall was supposed to fix has occurred.* :smack:

The dealer or the independent? Depends. The dealer for sure has the tools to deal with the problem, has the fault tracing information, and has technical support from Ford if needed. The independent may or may not have a scan tool that can talk to the ABS system, and the diagnostic information to fault trace the problem. If I was considering taking it to an independent the first question I would ask is “Do you have a scan tool that can communicate with the ABS system on my Escape?” If the answer is no, go to the dealer.

My suggestion? First off call Ford’s consumer help line (800) 392-3673. Talk to them and express your concerns. Calls do get tracked, and if problems are showing up after a service campaign /recall this can lead to a further recall (I have seen it happen). Next i would call the service manager at the dealership and talk with him. Tell him that you never had any problems with the ABS, but after the recall it appears that it is activating prematurely. Arrange an appointment, and ask him to go for a test drive with you. If you can demonstrate the problem to him, it will be much easier to get it fixed. Ask for his help to resolve the problem.

Good luck

*This BTW is a firing offense at every dealer I have worked at.All the places I worked at fraud is taken very seriously.

3

:smack: I forgot.
Before you do anything, check your tire pressures. An under or over inflated tire can cause the ABS system to act squirrelly.

4

Really? I just did and my pressure is 22…the sticker inside the door says it should be 30. Maybe that’s my only problem!!!

I will go tonight and fill them up, and hold off on the mechanics until I have the problem again. Thanks so much for your very thorough response!

5

If nothing else, your MPG will thank you. Low tire pressure can eat up a surprising amount of fuel economy.

Long term, it’s not good on the tires either - more blowouts happen from underpressure, rather than overpressure, and the tires will wear faster as they’re flexing and “scrubbing” along the road, rather than rolling.

For the non-believers, a cite.

6

So get this, guys - I went to fill up my tires, and the two I’d checked had been at 22 and 20…but the two I hadn’t checked were already at 30!!

I thought my car had been sitting lop-sided when I looked at it, but I figured I was just seeing things.

Maybe this was the entire crux of my problem! Thanks so much again, Rick, and gotpasswords too for your advice!

7

That large a difference in tire pressure can cause a fair difference in traction. The ABS system is sensing this, and will step in to prevent the wheels with less traction from locking.

If this turns out the be the problem, just think of the time you saved not having to go to the mechanic. :slight_smile:

It is an excellent idea to check your tire pressures about 1/month.

8

Shouldn’t a mechanic check tire pressures when he’s looking at anything braking-related? Of course it’s the owners responsibility to check once a month, helping safety and economy in one fowl swoop, which takes all of 10 minutes if that. But the brakes are related to the tires surely? If so was it laziness or something else?

9

The car was last in the shop in April, it is now the middle of June.
When in for a recall the mechanic will do what is required by the recall. A good technician will give every car a once over to see if there is anything else that is obvious that can be sold / warrantied. However I don’t think that any technician I have ever worked with would check the tire pressures as part of this once over. The closest I ever came to that was that as part of an inspection, I would spin the tires to look for nails. If I saw a nail, I would check the pressure in that tire to see if the nail had gone all the way through. If the pressure looked good, I would pull the nail, if it was down, I would send the tire for repair. Most technicians don’t go that far, as they are not being paid to go that far.

10

For the record, Justin, I hadn’t been for a proper “once over” (oil change, rotation, etc) since January. So no one would have checked my tires since then. Makes sense that the recall I went to was “in and out.” I have now learned a valuable lesson about checking my tire pressure.

Rick, you’re just saving young girls all over the place this month, eh? :slight_smile: Who knew you’d retire from being a mechanic and become a superhero?!

11

While I agree that checking tire pressure is probably not part of the once-over process, I have to say that several people in the dealership should have noticed a problem with the tire. A high-sidewall tire like those on the escape should show a noticeable bulge if it only had 20psi in it, not like the low-pro tires of a mustang or something, where the sidewall is so thin you can’t judge without a meter. Also, the OP said she thought the car was looking a little lopsided, that definitely should have been noticed during a once-over, unless the did the once-over while it was on the hoist.

The service writer (he’s got to get the plate #, make model, color, etc), the porter (got to drive it), and the tech (did the check, probably did a once-over) should all have noticed something this obvious, or at the very least ONE of them should have. These things all make the difference between a satisfactory dealership and an exceptional one.