Carpenters, handymen, prop makers: I need advice on building a prop milk wagon

My wife is directing Fiddler on the Roof for her school, and as you know if you’ve seen the show, the lead character, Tevye, is a milkman who uses a horse-drawn wagon to carry his products. We’ve been unable to find one to borrow or rent, so I’m building it.

I’m starting with these instructions:

…either build a small box, open at the top, or if you already have a 3’W X 4’L X 1’H platform built, turn it upside down. Build a simple frame under that box and along the edges out of 2X3 inch lumber with the handles extended forward enough for your Tevye to hold them and walk in front of the inverted box. Now bore holes for a single axle through that “under frame” made from 2X3 inch boards (drill them stacked together, before assembling the frame for easy axle alignment) and put a wooden axle (1 inch dowel rod) through the holes that extends far enough past the sides of the box to attach the wheels. Purchase a couple of 36 inch wooden wheels made for landscaping accents (they’re relatively cheap and usually found at landscaping stores and maybe even Harbor Freight Tools). I bought six of them there a while ago for $15 each. In any event, a quick “Google search” should give you ideas where to look. Slide those wheels onto the axles and pin them to prevent them coming off (but still able to turn freely), and then add a simple structure to the top side of that wagon box…

What the writer doesn’t explain fully enough is just how to attach the wheels. I have wheels like the ones he mentions (these are the exact ones), and a dowel that fits almost perfectly in the center hole, but I’m trying to figure out how to hold them on.

A slight complication is that I need to be able to take the wheels on and off for transportation and storage. So simply gluing them on (which probably wouldn’t be durable enough, anyway) is out.

There’s also the question of whether the wheels should be fixed to the axle, so the axle turns in the frame, or the axle is fixed to the frame so the wheels rotate on the axle. I think with the wheels needing to be detachable, it probably has to be the latter. (Or maybe both the wheels and the axle are free to rotate?)

Here are a few pictures of my actual wheels. They originally had a sort of hub in the center (visible on the vendor’s site in the link above) that served no useful purpose in my application, so I removed them. (Click on the image to see all three full-sized.)

My only thought has been some sort of cotterpin-like dowel through the axle, but I’m not sure that could hold the wheels on tightly enough without wobbling. An actual modern metal cotter pin would be anachronistic, unless it were hidden.

However I attach them, I’m thinking that I’ll wrap the axle with Teflon tape at the bearing points, whether at the wheel hubs, the frame, or both.

Although this doesn’t have to be a Broadway-quality build, or last forever, it has to be used by middle-schoolers (who are not noted for their gentleness) for several rehearsals and three performances without falling apart or calling attention to itself by wobbling or having stuck wheels in the middle of the show. The only weight it will bear is some empty metal milk cans. The actor playing Tevye may sit on the front edge, but he won’t stand or dance on it. (At least he’s not supposed to!)

Caveats: I am not a professional carpenter, and have only rudimentary tools and working space. I should have no problem building the box as described above, but I don’t have access to advanced tools such as, for instance, a lathe. The school has a 3-D printer, but I don’t know how to use it, and getting access might be tricky. So it would a Plan C or D, not A or B.

The show is in May, but I’d like to have this finished in the next week or two. I’m starting on the rest of the wagon today.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Instead of the too-modern cotter pin, you could use a wooden shim(?) wedge(?) through the hole, with one on the back of the wheel for stability. Hopefully you’re not using heavy milk cans?

Yeah, that’s what I meant in referring to the cotterpin-like dowel. I suppose I can try a test, with one on each side of the wheel. Conceptually, it just feels flimsy, especially if I can’t glue the dowel in place.

The milk cans weigh two pounds each.

Perhaps a ring with a set screw such as This?

One on either side of the wheel hub. Easy to take apart and put back together.

Editing my post to add that I love this topic, because last spring I started a job with a theatrical service and supply company (after previously being a residential carpenter) and this is the type of thing that I get to do there. Thinking outside the box for solutions to “problems” like this is part of my job.

$45 each. How many of those are you buying to use as props?

Great idea! The notion of making something like that in wood had been drifting around in the back of my mind, but only vaguely. This gives me more food for thought.

Sounds like fun! Keep the ideas coming. Thanks.

BTW, after a lifetime of working on and off in amateur theater, I heard about this book when (former Mythbuster) Adam Savage mentioned in a YouTube video having recently discovered it himself. Shortly after that video appeared, I tried to buy one, and Amazon and several other places I looked were all sold out, probably because a tiny fraction of his 6 million followers decided they needed their own copies, too.

If you don’t have one already, it seems to be back in stock.

Two or three.

I just looked at related items, and I think this is closer to what I need:

https://www.amazon.com/AZSSMUK-Single-Clamp-Collars-4-Packed/dp/B07GWFZ79F/ref=psdc_16411711_t1_B00207UHYA?th=1

[ETA to change the link to a set of 4 for only $16 instead of one for $10.]

A clamping collar slightly smaller than the diameter of the dowel (1 1/8th inches) would probably hold better than a metal set screw driving into wood. My question now is should I get something smaller than 1 inch to have a little extra clamping power?

Thanks again, @Sicks_Ate! This is looking promising.

Ooh, yeah that does look like the ticket! The clamping action is definitely the way to go.

Thank for the book recommendation, I’m going to order it to add to my growing Theater Crash Course Library!

I just ordered the set of four. You may have provided the solution I’ve been fruitlessly pondering for weeks, and just two hours after my OP. Thanks!

Isn’t the SDMB great?

Sorry I couldn’t get back here sooner, but, yeah, those clamp-on dealies look très magnifique! Maybe paint them brown or put wood grain Contact Paper (is his still made?) on the parts visible to the audience. Pix when completed, please.

In my experience in the theatre, if it’s black it won’t be seen. I probably wouldn’t have used a bright chrome collar without disguising it, but I doubt I’ll have to do anything to disguise these black ones. No one will be looking that closely at them anyway.

The next thing I’m trying to figure out is just where along the length of the wagon to mount the axle. If it were really being used to haul cargo, the natural spot would probably be dead center so that the tongue weight on the horse or the person pulling it would be minimal. But that’s obviously not a concern here.

So moving the axle toward the back some distance makes sense, and I’ll put two legs at the front, so it doesn’t rest on the shafts (two broomsticks) when not being pulled, which would tilt it down enough to dump out any cargo.

I can’t see any reason why any particular line aft of the center line would be preferable, so I’m thinking somewhere around 2/3 or 3/4 from the front. Is there any reason to be more precise than that?

While wandering around Home Depot looking at lumber, I thought of using broomsticks with threaded ends for the shafts. I’ve bought two wooden brush heads with mating threaded holes that I’ll cut up and mount to the underside of the body. That way the shafts will be easily removable for transportation and storage. I’m pretty pleased with myself for coming up with that idea.

Sure. Thanks for asking.

Is the wagon only a visual prop?

Does it have to roll on stage? Will actors sit on it?

A real prop is more challenging. It’s good that you are getting started early.

From the OP:

I’d start with welding a metal frame. It’s cheaper than plywood and strong. Simple rods can be used to mount the wooden wheels.

Attach 1/4" plywood to create the box and floor…

Channel iron is a easy choice and cheap.

Thanks, but 1) I don’t have a welder, 2) I don’t know how to weld, 3) I’m confident in my ability to make it from wood, 4) metal construction would be structural overkill and 5) much heavier than all wood, since it still has to look like it’s made of wood, and 6) I’ve already bought all the wood.

However, having recently seen Adam Savage say this about how stage actors treat props, I may live to regret not following your advice and making it out of metal.

What he says about the superpowers of 100-lb actresses probably goes double for middle-schoolers.

Lol, that is funny! I have the same issues, I build museum exhibits. Trying to figure out how a flock of the public will break things or hurt themselves is a constant thing.

In answer to the where to put the axle question, I’d think closer to the back, so in case (when) someone sits/leans on the rear of the cart it is less likely to flip up backwards. The legs on the front is a good idea.

The first lesson I was taught (or close to the first) at this job when I was building my first prop, was about “actor traps”.

That being, things that are poke-y they can injure themselves on, or things they can break.

I’m going to have to watch more of his videos.

Adam said (in his answer questions videos) he worked at several San Francisco theaters. Building props and working on the stage crew. That lead to his job at ILM.

Not finished yet, but here’s a shot in progress. (click on the image to see it full size.)

The basic body is done. The top rails are not yet permanently attached, nor are the wheels. I’m still waiting to get shaft collars to hold them on. (And I just realized today I’m going to need more to keep the axle from shifting.) I also have to attach the handles at the front. Still figuring exactly how that will work.

Note that it is sitting on a table, not resting on the floor, so it looks taller than it really is. Once it’s all assembled, I’ll need to finish it and figure out how to age and weather it to make it look old and beaten instead of brand new. I’ll look that up when the time comes, but if anyone has any suggestions, please feel free.

Google Photos

I forgot to mention, today is the 20th anniversary of my joining the SDMB. :birthday: