Catsix, STFU!

My responsibilities are numerous. First, I am responsible for the proper safety of the handgun. That means keeping it out of the hands of children and observing the use of it in the hands of adults. I never, ever loan out my guns to anybody, not even my father, and he taught me how to shoot.

Second, having the right to carry puts a fairly large burden on the permit holder. I am obligated morally and ethically to avoid getting into dangerous situations. That sounds ominous, but what it means is that if someone starts talking trash to me, I have to ignore it no matter how angry it makes me, because if I escalate the situation and I have to use my weapon when it gets out of hand, that is seen as aggravating circumstances and I will be held liable for it.

Third, usage is an absolute last resort. If you use your weapon you better be prepared to justify your usage. So I have an obligation, permit or not, to maintain my composure at all times while armed.

Fourth, if I do use my weapon I am responsible for everything around me. If I’m surrounded by people that I may hit, I must account for them. That means that there is the possibility that I may just have to take it to preserve the lives of others, weapon or not.

Last, I have the “power” of life and death at my fingertips. That is a huge burden in and of itself. I assume it with full knowledge of what that means, so I take it very seriously.

It’s not for everybody, and I can appreciate that. There are people that get their permits and have no idea of the responsibilities they are assuming. Those people, fortunately few and far between, have no business carrying a weapon.

In some states, although not Pennsylvania, there is the additional burden of taking and passing a safety course. I passed the toughest safety course I can think of, however, because my father taught me. You play with guns around my dad at your own peril, and that is no joke.

You don’t know many college students, do you? They’re lucky they remember their books and don’t lose their backpacks. Most are living away from home for the first time. You really think the best idea is to arm these kids? I don’t care if they’re trained or not. You have drinking/drugs/drama/dating + guns in dorms?

What happened is unfortunate. Lots of times there are no answers.

Great post Airman, and as a CCW advocate, I think all CCW states should have a safety/instructional course. My dad was my teacher also, but I believe there should be some sort of formal instruction from the state.

As you said, it is a great responsibility.

Word. That is one of the most important things that the Second Amendment zealots, with their simplistic rhetoric about “if we had lots more guns we’d be a lot safer” simply fail to understand.

Paradoxically, it’s probably the widespread cultural opposition to guns that keeps legal gun ownership a reasonably safe proposition at present for society as a whole. Let’s face it, LOTS of people simply are not fit to carry firearms. In my own case, for example, my combination of poor aim and a poorly controlled aggressive temper means that if I had ever habitually carried a gun, especially in my hotheaded youth, I’d almost certainly be either dead or in jail by now. Having people like me packing heat is not a way to make society safer on the whole, not even if you make us pass strict tests and lock up the guns when not in use. I’d probably be smart enough to learn the gun safety rules and pass the tests, but that wouldn’t make me a proper person to have charge of a firearm.

Fortunately, in our current society, there’s enough of a social prejudice against guns to bring self-selection into play: the majority of people who are willing to put up with the hassle (and in many cases, the stigma) of being a gun owner are people who are genuinely interested in guns and have a natural talent for coping with the challenges they pose. (Of course, quite a few people who are violent and unbalanced also self-select as gun owners, but we can only hope that the screening process and law enforcement can keep this part of the population under control.)

If our society really encouraged and endorsed a guns-for-everybody mentality, I shudder to think what would happen as millions of the naturally incompetent and foolish started bowing to peer pressure and joining the ranks of gun owners. In fact, a few years of universal or near-universal gun ownership would probably do more than decades of gun-control activism to bring about an actual gun ban for the first time in our society. The best policy for gun ownership, IMHO, is the same as the pro-choice goal for abortion: keep it “safe, legal, and rare”.

Nobody is advocating “arming” them. they can already possess at their apartments, where the drama occurs, where they drink (no "they drink at bars counters, that’s silly and you know it), etc. The issue is whether responsible parties (and as I stated up thread in many cases I suggest stronger training and/or screening for applicants, at their cost) should be allowed to carry those legally owned weapons to the LEAST likely place that they’ll be in an altered mental state.

Bolding mine.

This is interesting coming from someone who professed a desire to shoot the next person that cuts them off in traffic.

Fuck YOU, You self-absorbed twat!

I think after today that many more people are going to be thinking about getting or bringing a personal weapon to school, regardless of the ban on campus.

Declan

I own a gun.

I don’t go to school anymore. But I go to the store, I go to the theater, I go to restaurants. Generally, I don’t carry, although I have a permit to do so, should I choose to. Once a month or so, I do carry, and generally I carry concealed. I never witnessed an ongoing attack. I don’t have all that quick reflexes, and certainly do not have a military tactical outlook on shopping. I would probably be fairly easy to shoot, probably even after five or six other people.

However, I don’t feel that is enough of an argument to say that I should never own, or carry a firearm. Seventh or eighth, heck, I might survive. If I did, then I would probably kill the gunman. I’m not sure, though. Killing a man is a big step. The gunman has already made that choice, and killing me is a quicker decision for him. I suppose in the end, training would take over. Clear the mind, establish the sight picture, two to the center of mass, keep the target in sights, and fire at the head if he doesn’t go down. Whether he gets me or I get him is what you call a variable. But, I have to decide to do it before that. I think I would do so fairly quickly after seeing half a dozen murders. But, I still have to be sure the guy I am getting ready to shoot is the guy doing the murdering. (Don’t want to shoot Airman Doors, ya know?)

If the guy in this particular case is on a visa, and not a citizen, then he was illegally armed. If he was a citizen, and had a license, he was illegally armed immediately after he pointed it at someone, with intent to discharge it. (Possession of a weapon during the commission of a felony is in and of itself a felony.) A nine millimeter is a fairly ordinary handgun. My own handgun is more powerful, but would require more reloads to kill thirty two people. I must admit, though, if I am armed, I have enough ammunition in magazines, and on me to kill more people than that, even counting my own accuracy, and a bit of stress from the situation. In fact, I usually have enough to do that, and then reload completely, once I have used up all that I have loaded. Of course, that includes an assumption that I don’t have to face anyone else carrying a firearm. It’s a fairly reliable assumption in most colleges and universities even in barbaric places like Virgina.

Why do I carry 100 rounds with me? Because target shooting uses up a lot of ammunition. Why do I load it up into magazines? Because it’s easier to carry that way, and it means I spend less time on the firing line, which makes it cheaper. And by the way, my sixty year old pistol lets me shoot fifty rounds in about fifteen minutes, being fairly careful about aiming, and such. I don’t do fast reload drills, since I don’t expect to need to shoot more than nine people at the same time. I don’t expect to need to shoot anyone.

The existence of a gun is not the cause of a murder.

Tris

If only everyone were capable of this level of introspection.

CMC fnord!

I had no problem with Catsix’s comment.

And all the while, you carry in your heart the gnawing, festering jealousy for those of us in San Francisco.

Heh, you need that convertible, because unless you bought that carpool pass off ebay, by the time you get home off the freeway, it will be August and hot outside. :stuck_out_tongue:

Even in the places that do those things, it doesn’t mean CCW holders never commit gun crimes.

This is true. What’s the point? I would bet that people who acquire guns illegally commit far more crimes with guns than CCW holders. :dubious:

Thank you. Thus is it safe to parse from your definition and what the Police Chief said that there was at a minimum a second person involved in some manner?

It seems likely since the serial numbers were blasted off the weapons, indicating that they were acquired illegally. Whether the supplier of these weapons knew what the shooter intended to do with them, is another matter.

And I’ve carried since I was 21 with no problem whatsoever. You decided that it wasn’t something you wanted to do, and I decided differently. I have no problem with that because we both had the freedom to make that choice on our own.

How many of them have committed a firearm involved crime?

IIRC, Crafter Man told us about his experience in a safety course for CCW or whatever. The description of some of his classmates defy belief. These are the kinds of people you wouldn’t trust with a glue gun, let alone an actual weapon.

And for the record, I’m neither pro-gun nor anti-gun. I am, however, anti-idiots-with-guns. :wink:

Like say, Terry Kath?

(So I have a macabre sense of humor-so kill me)

As I mentioned earlier, many (if not the majority, I would have to check) state constitutions guarantee the right to bear arms to the individual.

He was Korean and yes, he did buy the guns legally. He had the receipts in his backpack.