yes.
As a sidenote: I’m continuing to listen to this press conference with ABC, and I’m getting closer and closer to pitting the press here.
These guys are ripping these people a new asshole that they don’t deserve.
To whit, they refuse to listen to the reasonable answers and the reasonable actions that were taken in what appeared to be an isolated incident at 7:30 AM. Namely, locking down the specific building, notifying students to be on alert and locking down classrooms. As pointed out, there was no reason to believe that the shooter would immediately return, and measures were taken in the immediate area.
When making a point about how the shooting weren’t necessarily correlated, but in the second attack the shooter was dead, the press immediately leaped to the conclusion that they were no longer searching for a possible “first shooter”, which was untrue, but the press continued to harp on it.
They’re continually talk about how, suddenly, “is any college campus safe?”, they’re questioning frightened students on their decision to stay at VT, and making unnessecary conclusions. Damn guys, try to get accurate information, don’t try to corner an official who did his job (apparently) pretty well
For completeness, here’s the reference list posted by anamnesis:
no registration is required for firearms of any kind.
no owner license is required for firearms of any kind.
no permit is required for the purchase of firearms of any kind, unless it is a handgun meant for concealed carry.
authorities have no power to control or limit the number of concealed carry arms you choose to carry (provided you hold permit).
no limitation or ban is imposed on the sale fully-automatic assault weapons.
no waiting period is required for the purchase of handguns.
no background check is required for purchase or sale of firearms privately or at gun shows.
state law does not allow individual municipalities to preempt or override state law with their own [stronger] local gun laws.
comparatively few cases of firearms being denied sale to individuals failing NICS background checks are found in Virginia, as compared with other states.
handgun buyers are not required to complete any level of safety training prior to taking ownership of a handgun, nor are any consumer safety standards required on handguns for sale.
no locking/security devices are required to be sold with firearms upon purchase.
A good portion of this list is complete horseshit, or genuine facts spun into complete horseshit, and I’m calling “horseshit” on Anaamika’s and anamnesis’ ignorance (or Anaamika’s ignorance and anamnesis’ intentionally misleading list).
Let’s hit the list one item at a time: - no registration is required for firearms of any kind.
Correct. Not all states require gun registration, so VA is hardly special here. - no owner license is required for firearms of any kind.
Correct. This is 2nd-Amendment territory here. Again, VA is not a special case.
no permit is required for the purchase of firearms of any kind, unless it is a handgun meant for concealed carry.
Again - VA is not special in this regard. - authorities have no power to control or limit the number of concealed carry arms you choose to carry (provided you hold permit).
This is true of most states with concealed-carry laws. There is no legitimate reason for the state to legislate this. Quantity /= lethality. - no limitation or ban is imposed on the sale fully-automatic assault weapons.
True. However, per FEDERAL law, a purchaser must obtain a special Class III license to purchase fully-automatic weapons, which are not available to the general public nor to most concealed-carry licensees. - no waiting period is required for the purchase of handguns.
Again, VA is not a special case. - no background check is required for purchase or sale of firearms privately or at gun shows.
Intentionally misleading. There is no regulation on ANY private person-to-person firearms transfer. Throwing in “gun shows” as part of the statement is misleading: there are individuals that sell their own personal firearms at gunshows, but DEALERS must still file all the appropriate FEDERAL paperwork. - state law does not allow individual municipalities to preempt or override state law with their own [stronger] local gun laws.
This was intentionally written into the concealed-carry law so as to provide a person that passes the requisite training and certification and licensing to not be penalized by a mosaic of conflicting laws across the state. - comparatively few cases of firearms being denied sale to individuals failing NICS background checks are found in Virginia, as compared with other states.
Intentionally misleading. This statement is designed to imply that VA is not stringent in background checks, when in reality, it merely means that there is a smaller percentage of NON-QUALIFYING INDIVIDUALS applying in the first place. - handgun buyers are not required to complete any level of safety training prior to taking ownership of a handgun, nor are any consumer safety standards required on handguns for sale.
No, there are not, and VA is not special in this regard. There are, however, restrictions on concealed-carry holders in the form of certification requirements, etc. - no locking/security devices are required to be sold with firearms upon purchase.
This is changing in many states, so VA may actually be an exception here, but it is hardly a condemnation of VA gun laws in general.
Beyond all of that, Anaamika, educate yourself if you’re going to argue that you don’t “trust” a concealed-carry holder. A person who has the permit or license to concealed-carry is usually responsible, and is required to pass a series of background checks, as well as proficiency tests. Many law officers don’t practice as often as these citizens, and are not any more highly trained in their firearms or more capable of passing the proficiency tests. Law enforcement officers ARE more highly-trained in close combat techniques, negotiation and mitigation, but that’s not the point of the statement you made.
You took what someone posted on the SDMB with no citations at all and just repeated it verbatim as fact so you could express your outrage?
So the NFA no longer applies in Virgina? In Virgina, there’s no limitation? Maybe no State limitation, but you didn’t say that, you just blindly quoted without even trying to know what you were posting.
Indeed.
ETA: I see DirkGntly got his post in first. Really, Anaamika, you are better than this. I genuinely like you as a poster, and I’ll say this - you may not like guns or gun owners, but at least learn the facts yourself if you want to make a constructive and honest difference in the debates.
I do have a CCW permit, I am a student, and I would carry my weapon were I allowed to. Remarkably enough, it’s not out of any sense of paranoia, but out of a sense of responsibility. I don’t think that anybody would argue that leaving a weapon in a car unattended is a responsible action, yet that’s what I am forced to do due to the ban on weapons at the university. Or I could leave it home, which totally negates the point of having a permit. For those hours when I am at school I am either a potentially helpless victim or hopelessly irresponsible. neither case fills me with much confidence.
There is on my campus. No guns allowed, even if you are permitted to carry concealed otherwise. But if you were carrying concealed, I don’t know how they’d know it; it’s not like there are metal detectors.
So you’re not “forced” to do it; you could leave your gun at home, as you say. The point of having a permit to carry concealed is that it permits you to do so where you are otherwise permitted to do so. You’re not permitted to do so at your school, and you are not by their prohibition therefore “forced” to do something else that you yourself consider irresponsible.
See, I think that universities, as state institutions with no particular security sensitivities in general (and please don’t go all hysterical about the viral genomics lab you work in that contains 17 different HIV-1 strains. I’m obviously not talking about the occasional place like that,) should have no right to regulate legal CCW’s on campus. It’s not their business.
Are there cites that people would be safer if there were guns on campus? Is there any way to back up this claim? I ask this without a partisan bias for or against guns, just in the interest of forming an opinion based on facts.
I understand what you’re getting at, but there are other places and other things that I do beside going to school. I have personal reasons for carrying a weapon, and for those 3 hours I am exposed for the remainder of the day, even though I have been properly vetted by the local authorities as a responsible citizen eligible to carry a concealed weapon.
I don’t understand why I can go pretty much anywhere with a weapon, but among that small subset of adults I would be a criminal were I to do so. So yes, I do consider it “forced”.
For the record, I do leave it home despite my reluctance to do so.
What the fuck do you need to carry a gun for anyway? Are you really that much of a spineless chickenshit that you think you have to be armed all the time? I’m not anti-gun but I wish you fetishists would be honest enough to admit that you carry guns mostly to make yourself feel powerful, not for protection. There are actually more healthy ways to combat those intense feelings of inadequacy if you’re willing to seek them out.
In response to Anaamika’s post about my summary of Virginia gun control laws, I thought it might be worthwhile to post the NRAILA online map of United States Firearm Control Laws.
I know that supporting catsix would put me in the minority here, but so does being a gun owner on the SDMB. Problem on here is that the anti-gun zealots love to twist the words of anyone who doesn’t think the way they do. I know full well this murderer would’ve done what he did regardless of whether Virginia had the strictest control laws possible or no control laws at all. That is why this is a slippery dope slope. I wasn’t trying to take a position on gun control or manipulate fact to make Virginia out to be the wild wild west. Virginia’s policy is comparable to (and has reciprocity with) many other states. As I said in my own OP which is now drawing attention, it was food for thought about how firearm sales are policed.
Was catsix’s comment too soon? Maybe. Was it insensitive? Definitely not. He has just as much a right to tell you to “shut the fuck up” about your stance on gun control because he believes that the increased acceptance of concealed carry law has led to a decline in aggravated assault and other armed crime … but I guess you beat him to it. You win, so catsix must be an asshole. This is a debate which, much like religion or politics, doesn’t have an answer that makes everyone happy, but the fact remains that as a gun owner, I have met many people whose lives have been saved from dangerous situations because they were concealed carriers. Like Airman, I also agree that responsible owners are not going to incite more violence, and find my firearm does not empower me. It protects me from the people who think their gun empowers them. I would rather have my gun and never need it, than need it and not have it.
The reason that catsix made his comment (and I can understand where he was coming from with it) is that in a state which is quite casual about gun control, it is mildly surprising (if inappropriate) to see that their own lack of policy didn’t have the outcome of a concealed carry owner attempting to defend himself and others at this college. His comment was inappropriate in the sense that another student bringing a concealed weapon in to defend himself in this situation would have been quite illegal, as I was trying to convey in my own summarized list of Virginia’s gun law.
The fact that anyone would start to pick a fight with catsix over the timing of his comment in light of the day’s events would make them a bigger asshole in my eyes than he was in the first place with his rather brief comment. I suppose suggesting dignity and respect of another’s opinion in light of tragedy may fall upon deaf ears for those on this board who love to crusade against someone they don’t agree with rather than discuss what’s actually happening, but alas … on with your provoking.
Indeed? When have you ever argued an unambiguously pro-gun position on this message board? Just curious, because I’ve never seen it. Then again, what I’ve never seen could fill the Grand Canyon…
I personally would be happier if part of the vetting to obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon would include a course on how to handle a dangerous situation without panicking. Or is that part of the requirements?
I’ve always been an optimist, and I figure the chances of someone walking up to me and shooting me are pretty low. But if I did have that fear and I weren’t allowed to carry a gun, another option would be to wear a bullet-proof vest out in public.