CD Song Order?

Factual Questions
1

I’ve noticed of late that I have an awful lot of CDs wherein the song that I like is track #5 or #7.

Is there some rhyme or reason for why they put the songs on a CD in the order they do (I mean, other than just composing a ‘good mix’, whatever that is)?

Do they tend to put happy, peppy songs on track 5 to give me the energy to listen to the remainder of the CD? Do they bury the “good songs” on purpose so that you’re more likely to listen to the whole CD (like the grocery stores that have milk and bread on opposite sides of the store) Is this some conspiracy? If so, should I wear a tinfoil hat to protect against it?

Am I pulling corrolations from the thin air?

Your attention in this matter is greatly appreciated.

2

This won’t be any help, but I’ve noticed the same thing. The big numbers for me are 4,5,7, and 8. But usually only a combination of two of those tracks per CD, rarely all 4. I was wondering about this the other day, but have no idea why it is.

I don’t agree with the theory about them doing it so that people will listen to the whole CD, though. If you’ve already bought it, what do the record companies care if you listen to it or not. They couldn’t care less if you even open the plastic wrap. But, I can’t think of anything better.

3

I know back in the days of albums the radio releases were usually the first tracks on each side. So, if you are listening to an album that was originally released on vinyl or cassette, and it has been combined on a CD, that would explain why familiar songs would fall in the middle. Cassettes still seem to do this so the order would be preserved on the CD.

4

I think that last sentence is the key.

To begin with, the record companies don’t know you, and don’t know what you like, therefore have no reason to assume you like “happy, peppy” songs over any other type.

Furthermore, are you equating “the good songs” with “the singles”? Again, they don’t know you, so they don’t know what you consider the “good songs”? They probably do front-load the album with the catchier, better-performed songs, so if you listen in the store, you’re more likely to purchase.

Speaking only for myself, having put together 2 CDs from my old band, we had 14 songs to choose from for our full-length CD, and we determined their order based on several factors: tempo, length, feel, instrumentation, etc. We tried not to have two very slow songs in a row, we put the longest song right in the middle, we tried to vary the instrumentation from light to dense, things like that.

I performed a completely unscientific experiment in this regard. First, I took a look at the Billboard Top 100, and picked out the Top 15 songs. I think we can assume that those are the songs people like. I then took a look at what order those songs appeared in on the albums whence they came. The results:

  1. “Bent,” Matchbox 20, #9 of 13
  2. “Everything You Want,” Vertical Horizon, #3 of 11
  3. “Try Again,” Aaliyah, not on an album
  4. “It’s Gonna Be Me,” 'N Sync, #2 of 12
  5. “I Wanna Know,” Joe, #5 of 14
  6. “Absolutely (Story of a Girl),” Nine Days
  7. “Higher,” Creed, #2 of 12
  8. “There You Go,” Pink, #4 of 13
  9. “The Real Slim Shady,” Eminem, #8 of 18
  10. “I Turn To You,” Christina Aguilera, #3 of 12 (Note: Her first three singles were tracks 1, 2 and 3.)

Then, I went to the album charts, and listened to both track 5 and the middle track on each of the top 10 too see how peppy they were. The results:

  1. Eminem, track 5 fairly peppy, track 9 plodding
  2. (Skipped, it’s a Various Artists compilation)
  3. Britney Spears, track 5 a ballad, track 6 mid-tempo, sounds exactly like older single, “Crazy.”
  4. Nelly, not an album, no sound sample available
  5. 'N Sync, track 5 uptempo but minor key, track 6 no sound available
  6. Creed, track 5 plodding and dull, track 6 midtempo and unmelodic
  7. Lil’ Kim, track 5 midtempo rap, track 9 not available
  8. Papa Roach, track 5 somewhat uptempo but monotone, track 6 sounds exactly like track 5. Not sure they were different songs.
  9. Kid Rock, track 5 slow, plodding, track 7 uptempo but hardly catchy
  10. B.B. King/Eric Clapton, track 5 very slow blues, track 6 midtempo gospel-tinged blues.

So, read into the results what you will; maybe it’s just the genres you happen to listen to. I, OTOH, deserve a medal for voluntarily listening to 'N Sync, Britney Spears and Kid Rock.

5

Ideally, the artists and the producers have input as to the song order. A good artist tries to create a “mood” to the album, though that’s hard to define. You also try to avoid similar songs coming right after another.

6

Way to take one for the team! There’s no way I’d make a sacrifice like that.

7

The nmost popular band in Canadian history, by far, is the Tragically Hip. Since I know their albums pretty well, I figured I’d try to see what pattern emerged. I admit I always seemed to like the 4-7 songs better. The Hip have a lot of albums out over the course of 11 years and they’ve been produced by different people, so it’s a neat sample, plus most Americans haven’t heard from them so you don’t have to retch at songs you despite, like "Oops I Did It Again.) What I found was

  1. Most of the Hip’s really good songs are between 3 and 7, but

  2. A lot of popular ones are the first song on the CD.

Just going by Hip websites, I found that every one of their really popular songs were either Track 1 or from 3 to 7, with some 8’s and 9’s. Track 2 songs are uniformly bad and generally unpopular. Taking their biggest hits:

Blow at High Dough (Track 1)
New Orleans is Sinking (Track 3)
38 Years Old (Track 4)
Little Bones (Track 1)
Three Pistols (Track 7)
Fiddler’s Green (Track 11)
Courage (Track 1)
Locked in the Trunk of a Car (Track 6)
Fifty Mission Cap (Track 9)
Wheat Kings (Track 10, I think)
Grace, Too (Track 1)
Nautical Disaster (Track 6)
Scared (Track 9, I think)
Gift Shop (Track 1)
Ahead by a Century (Track 3)
Poets (Track 1)
Bobcaygeon (Track 3)
Music At Work (Track 1)

I didn’t count their EP or live album. EVERY TRACK 1 WAS A MAJOR HIT, with a big video and the whole nine yards. That, I am certain, is not a coincidence. I think you’ll find Track 1 is always a big crowd pleaser that sets the album up. The Hip have never released an unpopular Track 1.

Other good songs were always clustered from 3 to 8, with some 9 and 10 and such. The above list doesn’t do them justice; there are lots of good songs from 4 to 8, like Thompson Girl and She Didn’t Know. On the other hand, the back side of the some of the albums is very spare. Interestingly enough, most of the LAST tracks are really good but weren’t released as singles, like “Eldorado.”

I glanced through some other CD’s on my rack, and you know, all the good songs are from 3 to 8. “Every Breath You Take” by the Police is in that range; Beastie Boys’ “Fight For Your Right,” too, and two more different songs you will never hear. Most of my favourite Sheryl Crow singles are in that range, most of my favourite Peter Gabriel singles too. Tom Petty - hell, even AC/DC.

Does anyone know anyone who would know WHY this is?

8

Well, first of all, we still need to distinguish between “good songs” and “hit songs.”

In any case, now you’re going way outside the scope of the OP. Grither said “the song that I like is track #5 or #7.” Either/or. He/she also asked, “Do they tend to put happy, peppy songs on track 5 to give me the energy to listen to the remainder of the CD?”

You’re talking about “all the good songs” being among tracks 3-8, inclusive. That’s six songs. Given an average album with 9-12 songs, tracks 3-8 cover half or more of the total songs. Of course you’ll find a disproportionate number of good songs if you sample more than half the tracks.

Based on the numbers I posted earlier, we can see that:

–Of the Top 10 singles in the country, which we can reasonably assume are people’s current favorites based on airplay and requests, the track distribution is as follows:

2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
2 2 1 1 0 0 1 1

There are more current favorites on tracks 2 and 3 than on 4 through 8 combined in the Top 10.

–Of the Top 10 albums, figures for which are based on sales figures, only three of them had a track 5 which could reasonably be described as “peppy.”

9

The big reason is to keep songs of the same key apart. at least acording to my old Jazz insturtor in college who was also the theory teacher said that songs in the same key tend to bore the listener so you have to order the songs so that the same key doesn’t follow itself. he also talked about what keys go together what should follow what etc. it makes some since at least. I would guess that you would put the more popular songs in the middle also to make people listen to the rest of the album, kinda like magazine articles that are split up so you have to look through the rest of the mag. anyway that’s my understanding of it.

10

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by pldennison *
**

Actually, that is one of the things I found so quizzical. Sometimes, yes, the track in mind happens to be a single/hit. (Which would’ve answered half of this question… The record companies plant the singles in the middle of the disc for some yet-to-be-determined reason)

But the songs I like on any particular disc aren’t necessarily the ones which are released as singles, and thus aren’t the ones which are considered hits.

The reason I compared happy/peppy to “good” is that it was a somewhat less subjective term. I think we can all agree what an uptempo song is. I’m not so sure you’ll all come along with my assertion that “Macho Man” by the Village People is an inherently “good” song.

11

I’ll be a good economist here and tell you, “It depends.” Some albums have themes, so that theme dictates the song order. For example, XTC’s “Skylarking” is supposed to follow songs over the course of a day, so the first songs are morning songs, and the last songs are evening songs. The near hit (okay, it was a college hit) “Dear God” is the 3rd to last song.

More overtly themed albums, like rock operas, hew even closer to thematic arrangement. Oddly enough, they all seem to end in upbeat songs (e.g., “Tommy” and “The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway”).

12

but most of the time, singles are released after the album is out, or at least after the song order has been planned.

13

We noticed this for one of our favourite bands - Pearl Jam. Track 8 on their records seemed to be not the singles, but the songs that hardcore fans would really enjoy. The evidence:
Ten - Porch
Vs - RearViewMirror
Vitalogy - Cordury
No Code - Red Mosquito
Also, on the record they did with Neil Young, track 8 was the song that Eddie Vedder is most prominenet AND on the singles soundtrack, track 8 is a Pearl Jam song.

I don’t know if the band noticed this, but their next record had, for track 8, a silly ‘non-song’ which didn’t have a title (aka ‘the colour red’ because the CD cover just has a red dot in that song’s place).

I don’t see it as a conspiracy, but it is a fun parlour game.

HenrySpencer.

14

In my experience, hardcore fans of a performer/group never have a favorite song on a CD that was played on the radio. It’s like being in on a secret.

The fact that you like a group enough to buy their CD makes you too biased to form an objective opinion of what the best song on the CD is. Sort of a catch 22.

15

i’m gonna have to call you on that one. i have many, many CDs. and i have definate opinions on what the best songs are. maybe if you buy every CD that the artist puts out, regardless of what it is, then you can’t have an objective opinion (maybe). but not simply cuz you bought a cd.

16

Yeah, but don’t the artists usually have a good idea about what’s going to be a single well before they are released?

Grither: here’s something to think about: are the songs you like more liikely to be in the middle, or are you more likely to like the ones in the middle? Which is the cause, and which is the effect?

17

not necessarily. maybe the first single, maybe the second, but not always…lately, a few artists have been asking fans what song should be the next single, so sometimes no one will know what the next single will be.

18

This is appropo: my band just got our album mastered this week. How did we pick the songs? We sat there and went “uh, this one sounds good here, this one good here, hey! shit, those two are too close in structure, move that one later”. The only song we “planned” was one that we wanted to have an extra long intro for (it went first). For the record, my personal favorite is the last song but the “sing-a-long” is number 5 (I believe). Granted we’re not “hit” artists nor do we care to be, so this info may not apply to the TMs…

Ach, may as well make a plug I guess…