CENTCOM Alums:"This gang can't shoot straight" Be ashamed, George, be very ashamed.

three of the last four Centcom Commanders in chief have blasted the planning and execution of the war on Iraq. (the fourth is chairman of the board of a large defense contractor, so we can’t hold his silence against him)

Tomorow night Tony Zinni will say the course we are “staying” goes over a waterfall.


George and Dick’s excellent adventure is piling up astronomical costs in every conceivable sphere of the national interest.

And still everyone’s head is firmly on his shoulders.

(except that iraqi kid, but we won’t worry about that)

Moved, the Question:

Regardless of one’s position on the wisdom of the War on Iraq, is it not a matter of institutional necessity, from the simple perspective of competent governing, that SOMEONE get fired when the shit gets this high?


Yes, of course it is.

The only debate here will be who ends up being the scapegoat.

I don’t think that anyone is going to be held accountable until this war starts affecting the lives of a lot of people here in the US.

This is an excerpt from a letter to the editor in this morning’s (21 My) Los Angeles Times:

“We [the writer’s family] trust out president and his reasons for going to war to protect our country … My son knows that the American people should stand behind their president during war rather than protest against him and play into the hands of our enemies …”

I’m coming more and more to the conclusion that the all volunteer, professional military is a great mistake. The framers had it right. Standing armies are the route to easy war.

What I think we need is something along the lines of the Swiss model. We need a professional, full time logistical and training establishment. However, combat forces should be composed of boys and girls who go for one year’s training out of high school with followup training of 1 month/year until age, say 35.

Then when some cracker-assed politician decides to start a war he would have to impress the children of ordinary people, like the writer of that letter, into the military to do the fighting.

GW and his loud mouthed crew keep talking about sacrifice, but nobody who matters to him and his cabal is doing that.

I wonder how the “no shame left behind” army coupled with “working for George means never having to say you’re sorry” is playing with the upper management of the armed forces.

The reason I ask is I still apprehend, perhaps more than ever, a “hiccup” in the smooth unfolding of election day, so to speak…

I would guess at first analysis that the three stars and up are fuming, and wouldn’t follow “some orders”, as it were.

Listening tonight to Mr. Zinni’s comments, I was struck by how carefully, if forcefully, he parsed his phrasing. The people he blames “failed the President” in thier planning and execution. I’m not entirely sure what he means by this. But it clearly opens a bit of breathing room for GeeDubya. Whether or not this is deserved is a matter of personal opinion.

What the situation calls for is for Mssrs. Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith and Rumsfled to commit seppuku in the Rose Garden (televised, of course). At most, what will happen is that the men responsible will issue a half-assed, mealy-mouthed admission of a lack of perfection, along the lines of St. Ronnie’s "mistakes were made., and then they will toddle off to comfortable sinecures at the Heritage Foundation or Pepperdine University, where they will be interviewed respectfully as regards the moral laxity of liberals. They will fly first class, and limousines and appropriate security precautions will await them. We will eat, they will dine.

I would like to urge a deep religious conviction upon them, not that I have such to offer, but in hope that they would spend the rest of thier lives in dread of Judgement.

Ain’t likely.

They will also write books, which will be reviewed in the New Yorker and Harper’s, and which will eventually end up on the “40% Off Bargain Books” table at WaldenBooks.

“My son knows it 'cuz I brainwashed him myself.” :smiley:

YES! YES! YES! Please!?

Where do I sign up for the pay for view !!  :D

Hundreds of American soldiers and contractors have died in this war. You don’t think their deaths have any effect back here in the US?

Our political system is set up so that there are (and likely will be) consequences for politicans’ conduct in the war in Iraq. It’s just going to take more than the “Bush lied, people died” mantra before people actually believe that the Admin has done something that requires accounting.

Attaboy. Why should concerns about effectiveness or security even enter into the equation? Better to have a military on par with Switzerland’s – and thus necessitating a strict theory of neutrality as the only way to ensure national security, and certainly preventing the ability to project force outside our own borders – rather than have to endure letters to the editor from simians that disagree with you on the war in Iraq.

Because we all know that military families aren’t “ordinary people” right now. They’re weird. Strange. Baffling. Probably a different species.

And we all know that no one cares when the current “abnormal” military puts their lives on the line. Presidents send them to war without even a second thought. Even the families of current military personnel hardly even notice.

Bullet sponges. Political pawns. Hardly even noticeable. At least they are right now. But that will all change if we get rid of our current crop of military automatons and put “ordinary people” into the military.

I find it hard to believe that any thinking person could honestly believe that Bush doesn’t know or care about anyone in the military. Seems to me that the only one that doesn’t think our current crop of military personnel are “ordinary people” is you.

Well, the last I heard the majority still thinks going to war was a good idea. And Rumsfeld, according to GW, is a great Secretary of Defense. According to Cheney he is “the greatest ever.”

And why is this? Could it be because the war has had no effect on their interests?

I guess you are under the impression that war in Iraq is effective against the type of attack that occurred on Sept 11, which is what started this in the first place.

Well, I don’t think so. I don’t believe that a first rate military establishment is any defense now or in the future against such attacks. And I don’t believe that “projecting force outside our own borders,” as in Iraq, has increased our security and has quite possibly damaged it.

And I agree that the term “ordinary people” in my post was a poor choice of words. Almost “Bushian” in fact.

Well, this president seems to do that.

I don’t see how anyone who valued others could inflate claims about the danger posed by a potential enemy in order to get the approval of Congress for military action in a country that had no demonstrable connection with the announced intention of a “war on terrorism.” So I’m from Missouri as to whether or not GW “cares” assuming that it’s important that he does.