Changes at the end of one's life

I’m not sure if this is the correct category for this, but I think it fits here (however, that could just be newbie optimism for ya). If not, could a moderator please help me out and put it where it needs to be. Thanks in advance.

Ok, I’ll try to make sense of this as best I can. Here’s crossing all my fingers and toes that I don’t sound idiotic.

[backstory] My grandfather passed away when I was 12 (I’m almost 35 now) and it scared my mother into action. You see, she’s one of these very over-the-top take-charge (among other multiple negative traits, but that’s another thread entirely, for another day – I’ll limit this one to only the pertinent quirks, I swear! :p) kinda people and was intensely close and loyal to my grandpa. After his death, that fear motivated her to get us back into the church of her youth and save us all from the possible hellfire and brimstone that he might have been currently facing.

You can guess what kind of church that meant we started attending. So, longstoryshort, I became saved when I was 13. Although one could argue that it either wasn’t sincere or it was motivated out of the same fear mom had, all I can offer is that it was the center of my entire life until I was 20. Everyone knows the type; carried my bible to school daily, NEVER let nary a profane word cross my lips, listened only to Christian music, etc., etc., ad nauseum. I believed one should walk the walk, so I did my best. And my position on things could have been summed up by saying that I pretty much believed like what’s described as a fundie. Hope that makes the ‘before’ picture pretty clear.

Now, cut to when I began feeling differently (early 20’s). I did finally notice that my mother’s choices (as would be evident by when we started our religious trek) were strongly and mostly motivated by said fear. It’s been a recurrent theme my whole life. She put a whole new spin on being over-protective for one. For example, I never even had spent a single night away from home, at a friend’s house, until I was a junior in high school. :eek: She strong-armed any dissent. Her views on virginity made me terrified of ever having sex outside the benefit of marriage. Hell, so much so that I was still wimpy enough to hold on to that until I was 24!! Everything, like flying or going to bed without speaking on the phone, falls under the same heading. Therefore, I would say that she probably would make Hughes look positively outgoing and non-phobic. :smiley: Countless other examples are available, but I’m hopeful that everyone will get the gist.

‘After’ picture; anyway, I decided I didn’t want to emulate that. I wanted to be free of fearful thinking and motivation. So, I’ve busted my ass for about the past 15 years to circumvent her teachings. Like; I’ve had bout after bout of night terrors where I wake up thinking I’m already dead and on my way to hell. (Can right here I just say, “gee, thanks mom”? :rolleyes:) It’s only been in about the last year or so that I’ve completely irradicated that. Finally. Thankfully. I’ve also worked very hard at ending those prejudice beliefs she instilled. Some of the ol’ homosexuality is sinful stuff and no interracial dating and the like. It’s been terribly difficult, but worth every bit of effort. Needless to say, empathy and compassion weren’t something I ever saw much of and understood even less. Gratefully, my outlook is a 180 degree difference today. :::huge sigh of relief:::[/backstory]

I would say that these days, I am beyond content with my spirituality. My connection with my higher power is truly great. And which is, by all intents and purposes, much deeper and more real than what I experienced before. I’m happy with where I’m at and hope to only broaden my horizons every day up until the time of my demise. I will defend staying in this state vigorously.

Which brings me to my question… I remember an old adage about “raising up a child in the path that he will go and one day (if he strays, I presume) he’ll return to it” and that absolutely freakin’ worries me endlessly. I don’t want to abandon what I know now to be right and true for me because I become scared later. I certainly don’t want to lose my critical thinking skills (ie: if I were to be diagnosed with Alzheimers) and revert to what I knew as a wee lass. I want to remain steadfast and true. Therefore, what’s the take on this? Does anyone know anyone who’s made a sea change in their life and stuck it out unto death? Or, have they gone back at the last moment or once, say, found to have a terminal illness, switch due back due to fear? How about anyone that’s simply changed again once they’ve gotten considerably older and felt that, for whatever reason, that which they’d heard/learned first was best? (Side note, I realize that reads really awkwardly, but I couldn’t think of a better way to word it – please forgive me and for clarification’s sake, I’ll be more than happy to attempt to mangle it again.)

Please help me out here, because as I’ve already stated, this has now become the one question that keeps me up at night. It’s so incredibly important for me, to know what the odds are and, to plan ahead. Because whether or not I’ll be able to stand strong, despite whatever I may face ahead in my life, will be an issue I will just have to resolve. At lease, as best I can.

~hopefool

P.S. The only thing I ask (guideline-wise) is for no one to preach at me. Share all you like, but condemnation holds nothing with me and I promise not to put up a fight if someone does. I’ll just move along. So thank you for following my only ‘rule’. :slight_smile:

Why does it make you fear? Is it because you believe that you are betraying yourself by not acting out what sounds like a very narrow Southern Baptist -esque mindset? Is it because you feel very insecure about your current worldview? Or is it more because you find life strange without living any kind of fear, so you create one?

Well, because I watched my mother do it for one. And no, I’m very happy with my worldview now. It’s what I believe to be the best fit for me. For two, it’s because I don’t want to change back to what I’ve known before and since I’ve seen mom fall for this, I suppose I think I’m more susceptible. Plus, it’s not unheard of for deathbed conversions. I guess this would be close to that.

As to your last question, that may well be possible. It ruled all aspects of my life for so long, the comfortability factor may play a part. I’ll have to ask my therapist about that.

By the way, did you have any suggestions or anecdotes? I would so love to hear from someone who’s been there, done that or else witnessed someone who has.

~hf

Do you think your mother may have wanted her moral values instilled in her children, and the only way to provide any moral authority to her beliefs was to look to religion?

Also, isn’t there a feeling of community among believers which most people like about religion more than searching for inconsistancies in their dogmas which would make them doubt?

I’d like to give your mother more credit than just being scared of death, it may have been her original reason but it sure wouldn’t have kept her there. And as for yourself you may find yourself going to church every week in the future for reasons besides securing a place in the afterlife… for instance, maybe you’ll fall in love with a pious believer and you’ll tag along, not saying anything to save his/her feelings. It’s all good… ain’t hurtin no one.

Have you looked into other religions? Why do you think you’ll choose your mother’s religion if you ever do?

-k

Hmmm… Let me try to address the points that Kempis brings up.

Do you think your mother may have wanted her moral values instilled in her children, and the only way to provide any moral authority to her beliefs was to look to religion?

First, my mom had no problem instilling her beliefs sans religion. That only became an issue after my grandfather died. As I previously stated, her stance on virginity fell outside of her dogma and was in full force long before grandpa passed away. I know that may be difficult to believe, since I was only 12 at the time, but true none-the-less. Now, as far as it lending authority, I agree. It’s very hard to argue “God said” or “because the bible says so” - type persuasions. So, it’s sorta both. Hope that makes it clearer.

Also, isn’t there a feeling of community among believers which most people like about religion more than searching for inconsistancies in their dogmas which would make them doubt?

This question I’m not so clear on. Are you asking about me or my mother? If you can make me understand it a little better, I’ll attempt answering when I have a more firm grasp. Thanks.

I’d like to give your mother more credit than just being scared of death, it may have been her original reason but it sure wouldn’t have kept her there.

Actually, that was kind of my point. My mother HASN’T “stayed there” because she’s infinitely drifted in the interim since my grandfather’s death, only to espouse that belief system somewhat more recently whilst she might be feeling her own mortality. Just a hypothesis however.

And as for yourself you may find yourself going to church every week in the future for reasons besides securing a place in the afterlife… for instance, maybe you’ll fall in love with a pious believer and you’ll tag along, not saying anything to save his/her feelings.

I am trying to find a church now. We’ve been all over the map on liberal churchs locally (for that exact same sense of community that you mentioned) but have yet to fit what we’re looking for. I’d prefer a Unitarian fellowship, but we’d have to commute a bit for that and would defeat the purpose of finding something in our new hometown and making friends. Also, I’ve already found my significant other and wouldn’t want anything different than the agnostic that he basically is.

**Have you looked into other religions? Why do you think you’ll choose your mother’s religion if you ever do? **

Yes to the first half. See above. And to the second half, because it’s habit, because it’s oldest, because I might be afraid when the time comes. That’s the whole reason I started this thread. I wanted insight into where I might be headed spiritually. Gosh, I hope I’m not making this worse.

I don’t know if this all actually clears anything up or just muddies the waters more. So much for me being a coherent English teacher in the future.

Yeah that does clear things up. :slight_smile: I read your post too fast, I guess.

I understand a lot your feelings, I was brought up in a religious home (Methodist). I’ve fallen away from the faith by researching it too much. I still have good feelings about Methodism since around here it’s sketchy things like homosexuality and fornication are considered vices like smoking and gambling… the church gives its reasons why they’re bad for you and let’s you decide.

But anyways with your question…
raising up a child in the path that he will go and one day (if he strays, I presume) he’ll return to it
Yeah, I think a child will return to the tried and true once s/he finds out the grass isn’t really greener. But if the grass really IS greener… I heard somewhere that converts to a new religion often are more involved with the new faith, compared to people who grew up with it. I think you’re more in the former category.

I can understand why you’re worried too. It would make a big disruption in your life to switch back to the old religion, especially to your spouse and kids if this happens later on. Your “native religion” has strict rules that are hard to justify, even from scripture. (At least nearly all scriptures I’ve ever read don’t have anything about interracial marriages as defined by American English. :rolleyes: )

I myself wonder if someday I have children would I want to raise them the same way my parents raised me. I like the way I turned out :slight_smile: but I had a lot of religion in the home growing up. Would the cognitive dissonance make me go insane if I told my kids “Because God said so” when I don’t believe it myself?

-k

ps. My handle is after a 13th century Christian monk named Thomas a Kempis who wrote On the Imitation of Christ. It ain’t irony I’m a God-seeking agnostic, I just really like his book!:stuck_out_tongue:

I grew up in a family that was not super religious, but in an area and time that anything that varied from Southern Baptist was probably suspect. So, even if I wasn’t a fundie, the only thing I knew was that the bible was to be taken literally.

The first question I remember having to face came about because of “sputnik”. We had been told that the people building the Tower of Babel had sinned because they were trying to build it to reach heaven. So, why didn’t God punish the Russians for shooting a rocket at heaven?
Then I went to an Episcopalian college and heard my first sacra-religious joke. I actually stood there and waited for the lightning to strike. By the time I graduated I had questioned everything and about the only thing that remained was my belief in God. For many years I tried to regain at least enough of those beliefs that I could honestly call myself a Christain. Lately, I’ve reached a certain peace about my beliefs and have just learned not to be so demanding about what I have to believe to say I’m a Christain. As long as I don’t try and force my beliefs on someone else, they basically don’t care one way or the other.

Here is a poem that helped me and you may enjoy reading The Christain Agnostic by Leslie Weatherhead.

When I was a barefaced lad I also had the superstitions like kniz had, looking back they were pretty funny too. :slight_smile: My natural curiosity and requirements for proof hasn’t come up with anything supporting the existence of anything spiritual. However, I keep looking, for I’m going to die one day and I’ll be dead for a loooooong time. Seems mighty important to prepare!

Hey ** kniz ** do you think you might return to the fundamentalism like hopeful is wondering about?

-k

I think a lot of us were raised in that kind of invironment, I know I was. Don’t blame your mother, she was taught to fear God, and simply passed that fear on to you.

If you don’t want to go back, then go forward, learn that God is love, and holds nothing but love for His children. I think a Unitarian Church is good, I went to one for a while, but eventually stopped going anywhere. I read a lot of inspirational material.

The main thing that happened in my life was a Near Death Experience, with what I learned from that I will only go forward into more of God’s love and compassion. You might want to search the net, there are a lot of NDE and other spiritual sites to help you better understand your spiritual nature.

Be happy to answer any questions.

Love
Leroy

Augh! Don’t leave us hangin’ lekatt, what’s the story?
At least tell us what you learned. Pretty please? :slight_smile:

-k

Basically I learned that God is love, He never punishes anyone for anything. He holds us safe and secure for all eternity.
Really good stuff. Yes, there is “judgement” you are your own judge. You make your own corrections.

http://ndeweb.com

is my site, a whole lot of reading if you wish.

Love
Leroy

Not unless you think I should. :wally

hopefool, I know you’re looking for your own advice, but I am more compelled to say up front that all I can do is add an anecdote. Briefly, I was a fundie my whole life, first began to question it in my teens, devoted myself more to being a fundie until I was in college and am still struggling to leave the fundamentalist outlook on life.

Now, I cannot speak at all to what changes will happen at the end of life, for I am quite young and am nowhere near the end; the only thing I can do is speculate. It’s a daily struggle for me to keep from returning to the fundamentalist mindset, because I’m completely convinced that I’m going to hell. I value critical thinking and the ability to experience the divine outside of Christianity, but I do often wonder myself if I will return to where I was before on my deathbed.

I wish you the best with your search and am eagerly looking forward to what else might be said. Also, I must second the reading suggestions of kniz; those are some of my favorite writings.

Do or don’t, I’m not convinced that it’s such a bad thing. :confused:

What I was wondering was your opinions on hopefool’s wondering if as people age they are inclined to revert to their original religion, even if they have had bad feelings toward it.

-k