Chaotic kid-dominated homelife & parenthood: Inseparable things?

In My Humble Opinion
21

It’s not inseparable, but as Manda Jo says, you don’t really have many memories of being a child under five and it’s entirely possible your mother did what I did and waited to have actual conversations when someone else was around or you were asleep. I surely didn’t think my two kids under five would both be quiet and refrain from dangerous activities while I was on the phone. It’s one thing to expect a 6 or 8 year old to entertain herself while mom is on the phone for a few minutes . It’s another thing to believe that three children under five will do it for the same few minutes. Because remember, three under five probably involves one being under three.

But there’s something else that occured to me- I’m not sure how old you are, but your siblings are quite a bit older than you. Is it posssible that there’s a bit of a “generation gap” between you and your fiancee and his siblings? Not the generation you belong to , but rather, the ones each set of parents belong to. When my son was young there was a fairly wide range of parental ages among his classmates. I was just about in the middle, there were a couple of mothers 10 or 12 years older than me, and one or two ten years younger. Even ten years made a difference in parental philosophy and twenty made a much bigger one. To give a made up example, it was as if the older parents insisted the child eat what was served or go without dinner, the group in the middle expected the child to have a fix a bowl of cereal or a PB&J if they didn’t like what was for dinner and the younger parents just didn’t serve foods the kids didn’t like. You might want to discuss general parenting philosophy with your fiancee without bringing up his siblings.

22

I have to admit that I don’t get this. Skyping isn’t something that I do routinely, but not because I don’t have any kids. It just doesn’t really appeal to me. And even if I was a parent and wanted to use Skype to show off my kids, I can’t see making that the sole focus for 45 minutes, particularly when Skyping with a relative stranger who really can’t disengage without being rude.

Perhaps when I become a parent all of this will suddenly make sense, though.

23

I just made a joke in another thread about my house being covered in Hello Kitty stickers, which is really an exaggeration. Yes, there are more Hello Kitty stickers than I’d like, but they (and other toys) are fairly contained in play areas. It drives me crazy when every room looks like a Toys R Us vomited all over my house, so I’m pretty strict about keeping certain rooms toy-free.

No way would an activity for guests in my house ever be “watching people play video games.” But as the parent of an only child, sitting with adult guests and my kid and playing Uno while chatting is reasonable. The kid doesn’t dominate the conversation, and the adult talk doesn’t get TOO adult (but we manage to say what we need to say). Part of this is that I want my daughter to learn that when our family is hosting our friends (adult or other) in our home, that means that we all do something fun and pleasant together. I also have the kind of friends who are likely to play Uno even without kids, so there’s that.

So yeah, it depends a lot on what you think is a priority and what you are willing to do/can do to get there. Some things are out of your control, like having a child with special needs. Or maybe you will decide, when you are in the middle of it, that getting an extra hour of sleep is worth going to bed earlier instead of doing housework after the kids are in bed.

I have a friend, with kids about the same age as mine (so like preschool) and she doesn’t care at all that her house is covered in action figures. But she and her husband are both foodies, and several times a week – not every night but SEVERAL times – she will feed her kids and then make adult foodie dinner for her and her husband to eat together after the kids are in bed. Too me, this seems CRAZY – heck no, I’m not cooking TWO dinners in one night! And I’m sure she thinks I’m crazy, to get up an hour earlier for housework in the morning so my house is not covered in toys.

24

Does Skyping actually appeal to any adult? I have no desire for people to see me while we’re talking. I’d really prefer them not to see me because I’m probably trying to multitask while talking to them, anyway, and then I have to make eye contact with them which can be awkward because the camera is not actually at their eyes, and… I tend to assume that other adults feel the same way, so if you’re actually going to make the effort to Skype, I will assume that it’s probably because you want to see my kid because I can’t imagine you want to see me :slight_smile:

Also, 45 minutes seems like a long time to you, but if you’re the parent, trying to herd three kids in front of the camera and get them to say something coherent, it can seem like not so long. Although I agree it was a little rude given that you were a relative stranger, maybe she was shy, or didn’t know what else to talk about, as not what you’d expect said. I often use my kid as a buffer when I’m in social situations where I am having trouble coming up with what to say (which is often, I’m a geek).

25

I think your impression differs what I’m trying to describe. I fully understand that a mother of 3 small kids will be distracted with their noise and calls for attention. What was alienating was that there wasn’t even a “how do you do, ywtf” or a “congrats on your engagement; can’t wait to meet you in-person”. These little niceties, no matter how boilerplate, at least would’ve shown she appreciates there is a wider world outside her children. I didn’t get the sense that she is sensitive to that wider world; it’s all kids, all the time.

To be clear, I’m not judging her as a horrible person or horrible parent, because I have good reason to believe she isn’t either. What I’m actually worried about is whether being hyper-focused in this manner is inevitable to parenthood, at least to a certain extent. The idea I’m getting from this thread is that this depends on a lot of things and is not an unassailable given.

I’m not sure if this is a factor. Future BIL is 2 years older than my fiancé and future SIL is 8 years younger. Both seem to have similar parenting style, from what little I can see.

It could be that when we become parents, we’ll adopt the norms of our peers. I don’t know.

26

Me either. Talking on the phone is awkward enough, and being able to see someone doesn’t make it less awkward if it means I can’t move around at will. But Skyping obviously appeals to enough people to keep it around. I don’t think all the users are parents.

27

You can be any type of parent you want to be. Your spouses family doesn’t have to dictate that either. Your fiance’ loves you and respects you otherwise why would he be marrying you? In most cases the “mother” sets the tone of how the household is run especially in regard to the kids. The expectations we have of our children in our house are different than any of my siblings or my wife’s siblings houses.

As far as broaching the subject with your fiance’, you don’t have to discuss how you “don’t want to do it like his siblings have done it”, you can talk about raising kids from how you would want to do it, and ask him what he thinks. Talking about being parents is a natural discussion topic for people about to marry.

28

I knew that wouldn’t be clear enough. What I was trying to get at is that your parents and your fiancee’s parents may be far enough apart in age so as to almost be different generations as far as parenting goes. Again , I don’t recall your age, but if , for example, you’re both thirty and your parents are 70ish while his are 50ish, you were probably raised differently.

29

Oh, thanks for that clarification. His parents are in their early 70’s, while mine are in their late 60’s. So similar ages. Both sets of parents are socially conservative (his take it a bit further by being political conservative, too), and both are religious (Christians). I think my dad is more type-A than his dad, but our mothers appear to have similar temperaments.

30

It sounds like you are a bit miffed with your sister-in-law for ignoring you, and then trying to make excuses for her, but then you’re still miffed, so you are wondering if the excuses are valid.

I think maybe it’s easier to deal with your feelings about the slight directly, at least in your own mind. Regardless of how good her excuses might or might not be, it’s still hurtful or disappointing that you didn’t get to talk to her and that she wasn’t in the least bit interested, or welcoming.

31

Very astute observation that I won’t argue you out of. One part of me insists I shouldn’t take her behavior personally because of the whole mother of 3 small kids thing. But another part of still can help feeling slighted and worried about future interactions. Adding to the internal conflict is that my fiancé carried on like nothing was amiss. This has me thinking my feelings are unreasonable and maybe even shameful.

I think the “right” course of action is to pardon her because…mother of 3 small kids thing, right? Plus the whole future SIL thing and being an understanding person thing. But it would be nice to know whether I’m in outer space here with my expectations. Like how likely is it that years from now, will I look back on this thread and not relate to childless me, for instance, whining about this skype call (and not just because of how minor it is in the grand scheme.)

32

I had an enormous number of ideas about how I’d raise my kid. We would have a “toy-in toy-out” rule, we would keep things tidy, we’d give each other plenty of time to go out and have independent lives and we would keep a generally adult centered household.

Didn’t work. I’m exhausted all of the time. Somebody is usually sick. The house is way too small. I can barely relate to my old social life anyway. Buying the kid new toys is actually really super fun. And once the sheer amount of work that gets done gets done, the last thing I want to do is watch Schindlers List and drink Martinis or whatever adults do.

Having a kid is like getting a second job. Some things are going to have to slide because there are only many hours in the day. You have some choice in what you let slide, but the idea that with enough good sense you can keep the household basically the same just with an extra person just doesn’t work.

33

True. But oh how I wish I didn’t know all the Wiggles songs by heart.

34

Yes, we are the youngest.

I’m sure we drove our parents bananas sometimes, but you with the face is absolutely correct when she says that there were a lot of things our parents simply wouldn’t tolerate. Even when we were really small. And I would also say that I don’t think this means they were stellar parents (or us necessarily angelic). It’s admirable they cared about maintaining their personal boundaries, but they sometimes went overboard. You can get any three-year-old to behave if you yell or whup her enough times.

At the risk of sounding like my sister’s psychotherapist, I think I know why she feels so weird. I don’t think she wants to be just like our parents were. She doesn’t want to be so “adult” that she doesn’t care to learn her kids’ favorite colors or the names of all their friends or watch their TV shows with them. She doesn’t want to be so engrossed in her own work life that she has no energy or time to help with her children’s homework. She doesn’t want to be the kind of parent who loses her temper over little infractions and rules through fear and intimidation. But now that she’s seen what the other extreme looks like, she’s scared. She’s scared that maybe strict parenting really is the only way to maintain order in the house and allow her to preserve her sense of self. But she doesn’t want to be strict, because that’s not her. So she’s worried she doesn’t know what kind of parent she is going to be. She doesn’t want to be her SIL, but she doesn’t want to be her parents (god bless 'em) either.

you with the face, I’m guessing a lot of newbie parents go through the same dilemma. The only thing I can say to help is to point out that unless ya’ll are planning on having a big crowd, the most chaotic stage probably lasts—what–seven or eight years? That’s really not that long, if you think about it. You will let your friends and family know that chit-chat time is limited to certain hours of the day. And don’t worry. We won’t even try to call you at home if your kids are the type to play bouncy-house around you. And when your friends/family come visit you, we will play with your beautiful kid(s) and tolerate their taking over the conversation sometimes and not mind when they show us the same magic trick five times in a row. And we will also not mind when you eventually say, “OK, lil monstro*, it’s time for you to go play in your room so we grown folks can talk.” We won’t think you’re a bad mother for doing this, and neither will your husband.

When your nephews come over, just let 'em know what the house rules are. “Ya’ll can play with your toys, but I want them put away when you’re done, okay?” “Ya’ll, I’m on the phone. Please take all that hooping and hollering upstairs.” Let your husband know that these are your boundaries, and that you’d like for him to help you maintain them. The kids might think you’re the “mean” aunt…maybe. Or maybe they will grow up thinking you’re the aunt that don’t take no mess, but is still very sweet and generous. We have an aunt who is like this, and she’s our favorite one, right?

You will find a balance. You will have a partner who will help you. And of course, I’ll be there to keep you in check if you should be too strict or too lenient. Neither of which I’m worried about.

*Please name your child “Lil Monstro.” Thanks!

35

As others have said, not crazy at all. I’m sorry if I came across as saying not to bring anything up.

As other have said better than I can, be careful how you bring the subject up.

36

I didn’t realize she didn’t really even acknowledge you. That is weird. I understand why you are weirded out by it. In the spirit of harmony, however, I would reiterate my advice from before… wait until the two of you have a chance to sit and talk in person, sans kids, and judge then. Maybe she’s just a weirdo.

As far as your fiancé goes, I think you would know by now whether or not he is someone who will validate your opinions, even if he doesn’t agree. So I wouldn’t worry about that part.

Kids change everything, as so many folks have said. So by all means, have a clear rule book in mind before you embark… but be prepared to throw that book out the window. Part of the joy is the how unpredictable it all is.

37

One other thing… you are so right to be concerned about this stuff. And it is worth talking about. Extensively. And here’s why: Imagine every little thing you don’t like about your fiancé… all those little things, that even added up, don’t amount to much because you love all the awesome things about him. Now amplify those things by 1000. That’s what having kids does.

Example: My husband has a habit of hitting the grocery store or 7-11 occasionally on the way home from work. Usually for beer or soda. He never calls or texts to ask if I need anything. (I do the weekly big family shopping, and invariably always forget one or two things). When it was just the two of us, no big deal. He didn’t really get why it was a big deal, if I needed something, I could just as easily swing by the store.

Fast forward to two kids under 3… We are out of wipes. If I knew you were going to the store I would have asked you to get wipes. I can’t just “swing by” the store with two small children after working a 8 hour day.

You get the idea…

38

I do think our current culture is way more child-centered than it used to be.

When I was a kid, I went to school during the week, got home and immediately went out and played with friends, came home for dinner then spent the rest of the evening doing homework, watching TV, visiting and playing with the neighbours kids or stayed at home entertaining myself. In the weekends, we might go somewhere as a family (sometimes bringing along a friend) or I’d go somewhere with a friend’s family but those were special occasions. Most of the time, we visited our neighbours kids and they visited us, and we did our own thing and were expected to entertain ourselves.

My parents loved us very much and showed a lot of interest in us, but it was also clear to us that they were each other’s number one priority. As we got older, they would go out for an evening without us. Some social events were designated family events where we all went, and some events were designated adult only events and we stayed at home.

These days when I ask my colleagues what their plans are for the evening or the weekend, they will invariably say they are taking a child to an activity. The home life does seem to be centered around the children’s activities. I very rarely hear a colleague say that they got a babysitter and had a lovely evening with their spouse.

Now that’s not to say your life has to be like that, but it does seem to be the ‘accepted way to bring up a child’ these days, and you will be judged by other people if you bring your kids up differently. Not saying you shouldn’t do it, but just be prepared.

Then don’t talk about his siblings. Don’t start the conversation after you’ve had a visit with them. Start it some other time, and ask lots of open ended questions to get his ideas on what life as a parent might be like.

39

Ah, okay! It’s true that I didn’t quite get this from your OP. It makes a lot more sense that you were a little taken aback by that as well. I would be too. So yes, with this new information I think you are absolutely in the right to side-eye it a little, and I’d like to say that most parents I know wouldn’t let their kids take over to that extent!

I should also note that to some extent it’s a choice to have several very small children all at once. That’s something you should discuss with your fiance. My husband couldn’t take two small children smaller than 3 in the house at the same time, so… we didn’t.

40

Regarding the SIL and the phone call - I think some of that is just phone etiquette (or skype etiquette or whatever). Some people think it’s fine to talk/chat while you’re doing three other things, like grocery shopping or driving or messaging with a 3rd person in an entirely different conversation. And in fact, it would be rude to say “Sorry, I have to get off the phone now”. I’m guessing SIL is one of those people, and probably was not a “giving my full attention” type even before she had kids.

I’ll say that I have a baby now and there have been multiple times that I’ve told my husband “Hey, you gotta take the baby so I can take this phone call.” I believe in giving my full attention. But the flip side is that most of my phone calls go to voicemail … because I’m not able to put down everything to take the call. And honestly I wouldn’t be spending 40 minute on the phone with someone I had never met before, future IL nor not. That would be 5 minutes, maybe.

I do agree though, it’s strange she didn’t at least say congratulations. That’s independent of kids though, if you’re already talking to someone it’s not that hard to remember if they just had a major life event, and react accordingly.