Or you could not care if they stick it straight into their veins because you believe they are human beings with the God or nature given gift of free will.
…or because they’ll find the money somewhere else.
…or because they’re likely to commit a crime or prostitute themselves for another fix and giving them a couple of hundred bucks might avert that long enough for them to come clean, see the light and choose not to do drugs any more.
…or because you hope they OD and no longer present a burden on society or suffer a painful existence.
…or because you hope your act of kindness and generosity will inspire them to turn their life around and become the Mayor of this town.
…or because even a [del]poor tailor[/del] person addicted to drugs is entitled to some happiness.
…or because…
Really, I could go on all night. But I hope you get the point. Giving up on someone is not the only reason you might give them money, even if you strongly suspect they’ll use it in a way you don’t approve of.
For once, I agree with you on a topic. I live around plenty of drug addicts and see the effects of their addiction on their children. I’m in favor of nearly anything that would result in less children being born under those deplorable circumstances.
Drug addicts can and do clean up. I know a number of people who are former addicts who are now raising healthy, happy children who are the absolute light of their lives. It would kill me to see them lose that option forever (no surgical sterilization is 100% reversible) because of a choice they made when they were at their lowest point. Anyone who says “they can always adopt” has obviously never tried to adopt- it’s not that simple. Anyway, imagine if someone stepped in to make the consequences of your lowest point permanent. Not pretty, is it?
And how much less motivated would addicts be to clean up if they knew that because of their addiction they had already screwed up their chance to have kids and a “normal life?”
There are a number of reliable birth control methods. What is wrong with advocating these? What is wrong with motivating people to come in and get a Depo shot? There is no reason to go for sterilization unless you know that you never, ever want to have kids. And if you are in the throws of drug addiction, you probably shouldn’t be making these kinds of life-altering decisions.
Someone brought up a good question- do they also provide this service for all the pill-popping housewives? What about alcoholics- I mean that makes even more sense with the genetic component. Can my old alcoholic boss get in on this?
There is a reason why they are targeting the demographic they are, and it’s not a pretty one and has nothing to do with charity.
On the other hand, it does seem like the relapse rate is VERY high!. Sure, it would be nice if “once clean always clean” BUT, someone can have the best intentions and still relapse many many times. They are not psychologically stable. Actually wait…I think a better idea would be to do this, but on a case by case basis. Like it would have to go through a review board. There are some REALLY bad cases.
And yes, it would be a good idea to give them temporary birth control…but do you really think addicts can pull it togehter to remember to take birth control or update their implant?
It is not giving up. I mean I think there needs to be a holistic approach, meaning trying to get them clean But I mean this sort of solution comes from seeing a lot of people constantly relapse.
It’s action versus inactions. What is worse, pushing a guy off a bridge, or not starting a charity to help suicidal people who want to jump off bridges? Both of them end up bad- guy falls off a cliff- but on is your fault.
I know lots of children of drug addicts to are pretty happy to be alive. Indeed, my own father went through a period of drug addiction. Wasn’t awesome, but I’m glad to be alive. He recovered and now everyone involved is living happy and productive lives. I’m glad nobody felt compelled to butt in on that one.
Do you guys know many addicts or former addicts personally? It seems to me like you are thinking of “addicts” as all being cracked out street people who will never recover. In reality, millions of people recover from drug addiction. You probably know piles of upright, normal people who have dealt with addiction in their past.
Do you really think anybody here has not personally known addicts (or been addicts)? Give me a break. I have worked professionally with the children of addicts – in some cases literally the the children of crack whores. That is an issue that matters in the world. Recovering addicts not being able to have babies is not.
Whether they can recover is irrelevant to me. I don’t want them having babies while they’re in active addiction. If taking money to voluntarily sterlize thmslves means they can’t mean babies in some hypothetical, cleaned up future, I don’t give a shit
Nothing racial, rather both the implications of simply handing hard cash to junkies - rather than using that cash in treatment, and the implications that possible harm to children justifies sterilisation - you can see the slippery slope there.
Ok, well as long as it is established that you “don’t give a shit” about their future.
Large scale fored and/or coercive Sterilization has an unfortunately track record, and as far as I can tell has never been done to promote anything actually good. There are plenty of non-invasive non-permanent ways to encourage junkies not to have kids. There is no reason to be advocating sterilization unless you have some other agenda.
This is a contradiction, as for a addict it is not voluntary. Many people, particularly but not exclusively women, deeply regret not having children, especially when the ‘biological clock’ stops and the opportunity is lost. Many find their greatest delight and the highest calling of their life to raise their children. Taking advantage of someone while in need and addicted , to deny them the possibility of ever having their own children is a great evil, it is selling them a short term gain for the price of their greatest joy in life.
Let’s be clear. I didn’t say I don’t give a shit about their future, I said I don’t care if they (voluntarily) mortgage their ability to have biological children in the future. That is no tragedy. Crack babies are.
Who said anything about forced or coercive? The government isn’t even involved in this. It’s just a a private charity paying junkies to get vasectomies/get their tubes tied. There is no coersion involved.
Like what?
Have you ever seen neonatal narcotic withdrawal? Ever had to call the cops to come get a dehydrated, starving 18 month old baby found wandering the neighborhood in a filthy diaper because its fucking crackhead mother had left it alone in the house for two days? I have. I don’t have a problem offering trash like that mother some rock money to tie her tubes before she can get pregnant un the first place, and I do not give shit one if that means she might not be able to reverse it and have kids in some hypothetical, happy crappy, clean and sober future. She can get a fucking cat.
It sounds to me like you’ve never actually been around the real victims of addiction.
Incidentally, isn’t it condescending to tell addicts they should not be able to get a vasectomy for cash if they want to? Don’t they have the right to make that choice for themselves without do-gooders interfering?
That’s where I’m at with this. Nobody is kidnapping these people in an unmarked van and forcibly sterilizing them against their will. If someone wants to take a cash payout in return for being sterilized, that’s their business.
Given that addiction often leads people to make terrible choices (committing crimes, sharing needles, etc.) because they are literally physically desperate, I think paying addicts to do something they will likely regret later is indeed pretty low. To do so under the guise of “helping” people, especially when there are plenty of ways to constructively use that money that don’t have the potential for life-long regret, is abhorrant.
If I happen to like face tattoos, and I want more people to have them, would it be cool for me to pay addicts $300 to get my name tattooed on their face?
It’s not being done under the guise of “helping them,” but with the motivation of stopping them from bringing new, helpless victims into their addiction.
Who are you to tell them they can’t do whatever they want with their own bodies? What business is it of yours?
Since these “upright, normal” addicts aren’t likely desperate enough to take $300 to get sterilized (though they may have some other reasons for seeking the surgery, as do some non-addicts), I fail to see the relevance.
When you become a drug addict, then you can by all means refuse to take money for sterilization. But why make that decision for other people?
Some posters are taking the position here that because the decision-makers are addicts, their decisions aren’t valid. And I call bullshit. Just because it isn’t the decision you would make doesn’t mean anybody who chooses it is being exploited or is so drug-addled they can’t make informed decisions.
Frankly, this is the same sort of attitude that causes drug prohibition in the first place: “These guys are so fucked up (I mean, just look at them!) that they can’t be trusted to make decisions about their lives and bodies. So all of us right-thinking individuals, with the help of our big, strong buddy the government, will make the right choices for them against their will.”
These are human beings that are being given a completely voluntary choice that will harm no one. And the end result is that some poor people will get extra cash and some unwanted babies won’t be born in hell. What a travesty. :rolleyes:
Add another vote to the “I have no problem with this” column. It’s voluntary, practical, humane, and fiscally responsible. Has to be a hell of a lot cheaper to pay an addict to be sterilized than it is to deal with the fallout of their children–who quite frankly don’t have a fair shot at life.
A lot of unsavory acts grow out of noble beginnings. Today you are voluntarily sterlizing addicts so they do not have addicted children - tomorrow you will sterilizing the poor because they may have children who can’t find work.