Charity stops at Christians

The BBQ Pit
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Spain. Basque terrorism (coming from a region which, incidentally, is among the MOST religiously minded in the whole country, breeding ground for members of the Opus Dei and others).

E.T.A. has been killing, bombing and maiming in Spain more or less non-stop since 1958. The worst year was 1980, the best have been recent years when (fortunately, fingers crossed) it seems that the organization itself has been mostly eliminated (the last E.T.A. killing in Spain so far took place on July 30, 2009; a car bomb that killed some Guardia Civil agents; outside Spain, they killed a French Gendarme on March 16, 2010). On December 30, 2006 E.T.A. blew up the whole parking of the newest terminal (T4) of Madrid airport with between 500 and 800 kilograms of explosives (and, interestingly enough, they said that their 9-month old “ceasefire” was still holding. Fuck them). It was extremely fortunate that the parking was empty enough of people that there were only 2 dead and 26 wounded.

One of their worst outrages was the car bomb in the parking lot of the HIPERCOR supermarket in Barcelona, on June 19, 1987. There were 21 dead and 45 wounded.

And before you say anything about how the amount of victims is not “too high” (although any amount is too high), keep in mind that E.T.A. has been killing for more than 50 years, and in every one of those years thay have been planting bombs, killing people and, well, acting like the terror group they are.

So, Leon497, I am sorry, but what you said is demonstrably, tragically and deadly false.

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Or maybe they will grow up to be assholes like you.

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You don’t expect Christians to actually read the bible do you? They have men with pomaded hair on TV to tell them what the important parts are.

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Is Chicago in the third world now? The deep-filled pizza pie I had there a few years ago didn’t have enough cheese on it, so you may have a point.

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As an addendum to my latest message (edit window missed), between 1968 and 2002 (last year I got with detailed statistics), there were 3,300+ E.T.A. terrorist attacks. Let that sink for a moment, and let’s see if you can honestly say that “no Christian countries have had a terror problem with their native population”.

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Come to think of it, why help out people who live somewhere else when there are people right in our own homes who cannot afford a new plasma television or Kinect system. As the Bible says (or maybe it was Shakespeare, which is almost as good), charity begins at home. And when you give to those in your own home, you can be sure that you are helping out those who hold the same faith and values as you. Because if they didn’t, you would kick their asses out onto the street in a hot second.

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Well let’s see–to answer it should be obvious I was referring to terrorism AGAINST THE USA so all those civil unrests you all bring up do not apply, they were not after us. I was also referring to terrorists as of 2001 and beyond, not something ages back, and that should be obvious as well.

Regarding that abortion doctor killing, that was not terror, it was a murder directed at one person, that is not terror any more than any killer is a terrorist although he does indeed scare some folks.

You know exactly what I mean and come up will a lot of bull to cover the fact your bigotry is against anything Christian. I am surprised no one claimed what went on in England yesterday terror too? But see it was not directed at the USA so does not count in this discussion, see now?

Ireland was mentioned, again that was not towards us at all, and I read that all ended about 10 years back. I know here I have not read of any more bombings and that the IRA disbanded. Yes that was terror, but not threatening the USA so not a part of this point I made, and I still stand by.

I do not want to give aid to those attacking the USA or shooting our soldiers, and the period is 2001 and later for that test. Clear now folks?

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So… Tim McVeigh doesn’t weigh on your mind?

(If you don’t stop moving those goalposts you’re going to get a hernia.)

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Got it. I’ll just check off the isolationist and xenophobic check boxes next to your name and there will be no more confusion.

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You’d think those on a message board could read, Oklahoma I did mention, and further it sure was way before 2001. Yes it was terror, 1 guy. Meanwhile hundreds others fit my description in the same time period, just making my point.

Who says Tim was a Christian? I always read Atheist, and he gave no religious reason for the attack, he was mad at the ATF as I recall. Your point there makes no sense.

I said at start there were occasional nut cases and that sure covered him. And I don’t think he was Christian and that his beliefs were part of the terror reason, and they are with all the non-Christian countries that foster terror, and you know it. He also was not part of any group asking for aid, which is the subject here anyway.

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What about the fact that Burma isn’t even a Muslim country in the first place, you idiot?

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You fucking moron, no extremism in Christian countries, right, take a deeper look at Africa, shitface. And no, it’s not a country.

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Well, you addled idiot, you may have meant that. You sure as shit didn’t say it. You even made broad, blanket statements about terrorism in countries in general, not simply the US. You fucked up and now you’re waving your hands to try to make us all believe you were being accurate, instead of talking your fool head off about things you obviously know nothing about, and care less for.

Look, Pudding-for-Brains, the purpose of killing Dr. Tiller was twofold: To stop Dr. Tiller from performing any more abortions; Now, pay close attention, the second part of the purpose behind the killing, which was critical to the defense offered at trial, was that it was meant to be an act to intimidate other people from performing similar abortions, out of fear that they might be next.

This, Headcheese, is a classic description of a terrorist motivation. You’re going to have to move the goal posts some more to even begin to get this one to stand up for a kangaroo court of your friends.

Yeah. It’s clear.

You’ve got newburg where most people keep brain tissue. And you expect us to read that newburg to understand what you think you meant when you write peurile bullshit that is factually incorrect.

When called on your ignorance, and faulty logic, your major defense seems to be to accuse the people disgusted by you of being prejudiced against Christians. No we’re prejudiced against idiots who can’t be arsed to present factual arguments in support of their biases.

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Not terrorism, really? So the websites giving names and addresses of those involved in abortions and photos of people with cross-sights superimposed. Campaigns of intimidation and violence against same. Even murder isn’t terrorism. And yet one of their obvious goals is to make their targets terrified and stop performing abortions. They are terrorists, not just ordinary murderers. Causing fear is one of their aims, that’s what terrorists do.

Just reflect on the level of fundraising for the IRA that went on in the USA and read the next quote.

The rest of you are fair game though. In fact here’s $10

Yup clear. You don’t know what terrorism really is. But even so as long as it’s not happening to you it’s fine. I thought your religion called this time of year “the season of goodwill to all men.”

You sir are a ignorant racist bastard. You shame your religion, your country and your species. As say this as someone who is not of the same religion, nationality or (I hope) species.

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Well I agree with Leon. We definitely should not be giving aid to those Thais and Burmese who have been attacking the USA and shooting our soldiers since 2001.

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Dude, moving the goalposts isn’t the same as “making a point.” People gave you perfectly good examples of terrorism that are or have been part of the normal course of life in so-called “Christian” countries. You can’t change the rules and say “But that’s not what I meant! I meant acts of terror in the good old US of A!”

If that’s the case, let me submit the following examples:

Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park Bomber, set off a bomb that killed one person, probably contributed to the death of another, and wounded 111. He was part of the Christian Identity movement and claimed political motives for the Olympic Park bomb.

Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, among others, drove a truck full of explosives into the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people, including children at the building’s day care center. As with Rudolph, there was a political motive claimed; both McVeigh and Nichols were sympathetic to the far-right anti-government sentiment of the early- to mid-90s, which used Christian Identity beliefs to justify their actions. I am aware that McVeigh himself did not claim Christianity as his specific motivation, but the movement he was part of certainly did.

If you want to look at the Sixties and Seventies, you’ve got the Weather Underground, which planted bombs that killed people in the name of radical politics; you’ve got the Symbionese Liberation Army, which kidnapped Patty Hearst and used her as a pawn to get attention to their cause; and you’ve got Charles Manson, who used mass murder to hold Los Angeles hostage for several months in 1969-70, and who also claimed political motives for his crimes. (You can, of course, make the argument that Manson’s crimes really came down to the fact that he and his followers were batshit crazy, but the Tate-LaBianca murders really did scare the bejeezus out of LA until they were caught and jailed.) The Weather Underground and SLA might not have used Christianity to justify themselves, but Manson certainly did. And no matter how you slice it, all three groups committed acts of terrorism that were intended to call attention to themselves.

Historically, you’ve got the Ku Klux Klan, who committed acts of violence against blacks, Jews and Catholics. Hell, you’ve got the entire far-right anti-abortion movement, some of whose members are more than happy to bomb clinics, shoot doctors and clinic staff, threaten patients and passers-by, and post the private information of clinic doctors in order to goad those who are willing to actively stalk and murder those doctors, all in the name of their particular brand of Christianity.

But it’s OK. I’m sure you’ll figure out a way to move the goalposts again. Shithead.

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Gary, can you please muzzle your little cutey?

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I concur, and I would like to thank Leon something something for opening my eyes.

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But I thought the lesson of charity was to give to the least deserving and worthy for are they not the most wretched? Isn’t that the test of compassion and lovingkindness? Wait now, is that a Buddhist lesson or a Christian lesson? I’m so confused.

I feel for Leon he’s being pretty harshly judged here, I have to say. Maybe there’s something to that old adage, “Judge not, lest you be judged.” Where’s that from again?

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Of course everyone is lying now in a get the Christian riot. Where did I say not to give to Burma, or that it is a Muslim country, I remember using Indonesia as an example. Why? Because I have seen ads for Indonesia aid, not because I think it is Burma. If you will read what I said it was to do charity near home first, in the USA if you can or at least in Mexico where plenty are dirt poor. I think most see that my statement was not that there had never been bad folks in a Christian country.

The discussion on Burma went on to say they can be shot if seen and that even the web site had registration issues about legality and so on, this sure seems to make my point that why not give closer to home where there is some oversight? To existing and known good charities who file reports here in USA (assuming you are in the USA).

They mentioned that medicines are indeed stolen by the bad guys and re-sold, just as I had predicted as well. The discussion there just made my point.

But if you do live near that area, I said it was fine to give, just let the rich countries nearby give first and we in USA give to our near neighbors. I don’t follow all the hate for that idea.

Nor why a board in Chicago in English wouldn’t mostly be a local USA audience. Do you all really go to boards not in English and participate regularly on boards in foreign domains in foreign languages? I bet only a handful do. I just don’t buy the points you try to make at all.