Yes, what the fuck were those missionaries doing in Afghanistan, in the first place? Why did they think that they could go into Afghanistan and get by with trying to convert the people? Why does Christianity think their story is better than other stories, myths or whatever you wish to call it. I’m glad they didn’t get hurt. I’m even more delighted that they didn’t seem to fuck up any of the war. They are back and they need to stay home. NO MORE TRYING TO SAVE THE WORLD!
Because they don’t believe it’s a story or a myth. They believe that it is the truth.
Duh.
kniz, one of the gals happens to be from Nashvegas originally, and the way its played here in the media (besides to death) is that they were part of a Christian organziation that was delivering aid to the Afghanis and not trying to convert them. How true that is, I don’t know. (The local media is notoriously bad. One of the reporters decided to break into the local water treatment plant to show how easy it would be for terrorists to do it. He failed to notice that he’d broken into a sewage treatment plant. So far as I know, they’ve not done a retraction on the piece.)
Better question:
Why can’t Christians go and help those in need without spouting off about their religion, especially to people who could be executed for listening to them?
I had no sympathy for those people. Sure, I’m glad they survived, but if they hadn’t, well that would have been their fault. As guests of Afghanistan, they were under an obligation to obey the laws of the country, no matter what they thought of them. I also worry that they are taking advantage of people who are so desperate for aid that they allow the Christian aid workers to inflict their message upon them, and endanger their lives. Talk about a rock and a hard place - starvation, or death by firing squad for being caught talking to the Christians.
Yeah, what the fuck is up with those people who risk their lives trying to give aid to refugees in war torn countries? Those assholes.
I don’t think anyone’s saying “don’t give aid.” I think they’re saying “if you give aid and you happen to be a member of a religion that, by espousing it will get you and the people you espouse it to killed, then maybe the aid should be espousal-free.”
No, on second thought, forget the flippant answer. I’m genuinely pissed here.
kniz,cazzle, you insignificant turds, those people were risking their lives by going into one of the most hellish places on Earth to bring a little help to the people who most need it. It’s called compassion, you fuckdigits. It’s called concern for your fellow man. I am flat out fucking amazed at the courage those people showed by going into Afghanistan, where they were almost certainly going to be arrested just on general principles. (Hell-O! Taliban! We’re talking psycho zealot murderers here. Not big on due process.) One of those missionaries is worth fifty of you filthy invertebrates.
BTW, kniz, when you say, “I’m even more delighted that they didn’t seem to fuck up any of the war,” what the fuck are you smoking?
According to the news, here’s what they did. An Afghan family asked them who Jesus Christ was. They went to their house and played them a video of some kind, then left. The Taliban found out and arrested them.
I went to the NY Times site and found these passages from the account of the workers’ rescue:
"Surrounded by about 50 Taliban soldiers with Kalashnikov rifles, they were seized by the Taliban’s religious police, the Department for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, and accused of giving away a book about Jesus and showing a CD-ROM about his life.
“Afghanistan is a very, very religious society,” Mr. Taubmann said. “Everywhere I go, even if I don’t want to talk about religion, you are always questioned.”
“We were always challenged,” he said. "Even the Taliban, while I was in prison, we had so many discussions with them about faith. They explained their faith and they asked us what we believe. `Are you also praying? Do you believe in God? You Christians, do you have some holy books?’ "
"
This one sure brought back memories!
My cousin was a young woman of extraordinary beauty, who converted to evangelical Christainity. She was promptly tapped for missionary duty to an extemely hostile, septic part of the world. On our side of the family we shook our heads and knew exactly what was going on: these outfits take their most babelicious converts and set them up as bait.
I’m glad this is just the BBQ forum, since I can’t prove anything. But I’ve lost more bets through naievte than cynicism, and “perky young white virgins trapped in Taliban harem” seems like too much of a church publicist’s dream come true.
Quick quiz… how many aid workers in Afghanistan? I don’t know the answer, but I know there are lots. How many arrested? Eight. I don’t believe for one moment that they weren’t preaching.
How is it compassionate to try to convert people to a religion that is banned in their country? If they were being decent CHRISTIANS they would hand out aid, and keep their mouths shut.
Meanwhile, you obviously didn’t get the news that the brother of the Australian woman was trying to get America to hold off the war and rescue his sister. Right. She’s so much more important than anything else that has happened that America should put aside it’s grievances to endanger the lives of their people in order to rescue an Australian idiot who violated the laws of a country she was a guest in, potentially endangering the lives of all she came in contact with and was arrested for her crime. Then he attacked the Prime Minister of Australia for not doing enough to rescue her, and for a verbal slip-up he made.
You’re a fool. Christian spirit means giving without asking anything in return. These people went there, not to hand out food, but to use food as a tool to try to influence Muslims to become Christians in a country where Christianity is not good for your health. Tell me again it was a selfless mission of compassion - I think you’re deluding yourself. These people were there to try to win some points with God by turning the “heathens” into Christians.
Can’t Christians do anything for someone else without expecting a renouncing of old ways and embracing of their faith?
Yeah, just think what would have happened if that Jesus guy tried to preach what was considered blasphemy. Why, they’d have crucified him.
:rolleyes:
Hey Cazzle fuck you. Who made you the fucking expert on Christianity around here? Are you the goddam Pope? Are you some fucking bishop (in any Christian faith)? Are you a minister? No? Fuck you. Whatever their motivations were they were doing a lot more than some piece of shit like you sitting on your couch were doing to help others.
The people there said they were ASKED about Christ. ASKED!!! Not that they were fucking handing out a Chick track with every bowl of rice. And you know what, I’m sure that they came prepared to answer any questions IF THEY WERE ASKED. Which they were.
Can’t fucking self-righteous pricks like you do anything for anyone period, except, of course, bitch and moan about what other people are doing? Get off your fucking high horse, go down to Afghanistan, and hand out fucking food yourself if you think you could do such a better job at it.
As for the Australians, you’re telling me you wouldn’t try and get people to save your sister’s life? You wouldn’t? Well you are a fucking cold-hearted bastard then. I sure as hell would, even if I didn’t think that it would succeed.
The family members of the American aid workers were interviewed a while ago, and said that they DIDN’T ask the Government to hold off bombing, or taking any military action to spare their loved ones. They were very stoic, and didn’t want to impair the war effort in any way, even if it would risk their loved ones’ lives.
The aid workers are being interviewed on TV live, right now. They say that the only charges against them that are true is that they did show part of a Jesus video (after being asked) and they did copy off part of a book which had stories about Jesus (after being asked). That’s the only thing they did.
To those of you who are so disgusted with these aid workers, why don’t you lead by example, and go over there and risk your butt instead, and yet never talk about religion, even when asked? Show 'em how it’s done?
By the way, my church helps out the needy locals by running a soup kitchen. Even though we don’t preach at all to the people who eat there, don’t you think we’d better stop giving out free food? I mean, we are a CHURCH and all, and they see the pictures of Jesus on the wall. And yeah, we are horrible bastards because yeah, when asked, we will answer questions about our church. So we are pushing our agenda on these people, while feeding them. HOW DARE WE!!! We’d better stop giving out free food. We are terrible people.
:rolleyes:
Why the fuck are scientists trying to isolate genes and map genomes??? FUCK!
Oh, sorry. I thought this was the thread where we bitched about stuff we know nothing about.
Point one - they broke the laws of the country by bringing that stuff in with them. Good Christians, indeed, breaking laws and stuff. They were there to do a job, not to preach, and they had no business or right bringing videos and books that were banned on the off chance that someone would encourage them to break the law and speak about a banned religion.
Point two - I’d do a lot to save my sister, but I’m also realistic enough to know that the US probably don’t care that the Taliban are holding my sister. Publically abusing the Prime Minister because he’d done everything in his power doesn’t achieve much. Also, demanding the US hold off the war, and instead send their people in to rescue his sister from the situation she’d placed herself in seemed more than unreasonable to me. His sister may be important to him, but I think this war is important to America, and he had no business publically denouncing the US for not dropping everything to save his sister.
She went there willingly. She knew the risks. She took banned items with her. She preached, despite knowing it was against the law. She was arrested. Yet we’re supposed to feel sorry for her? No. I feel sorry for the residents of the country who had no choice but to live under the rule of the Taliban. I don’t feel sorry for Christians who can’t leave well enough alone. I certainly don’t feel sorry for a family that consider themselves more important than anything else.
Yosemitebabe, the Americans may not have asked the Government to hold off, but the Australians did. Also, the Australians denied every part of the charges about preaching, and abused our Prime Minister when he made an on-the-spot remark about how sad it is to be persecuted for preaching - despite all he’d done to try and help them. Now they admit they were preaching - “but not much”. Sure. Whatever.
I guess that depends on how you define “well enough.”
Cazzle is consistently a coherent, intelligent and courteous poster. Whatever I’ve read of hers has always been calm and human and friendly.
Miller, Neurotik - your language is vile, your hateful invective preposterous. And you’re on the side of christianity?
I prefer the meek approach of my friend Cazzle. Indeed, I’m sure that one day she’ll inherit something good because of it.
Redboss
[sub]I love living in a secular country - Oz**
Actually, you abominable moron, almost all of the aid workers fled Afghanistan months ago, long before 9/11, because they were all reasonably certain the Taliban would kill them. I’m pretty sure these eight people were the last aid workers left in Afghanistan. See, they hung around because helping these people was more important to them than their own lives. Try and wrap your selfish little world view around that.
yosemitebabe covered this one pretty well.
Well, taking your word that all of this is true, how the fuck is this one asshole’s behavior the responsibility of his sister? She was in a prison in Afghanistan, it’s not like she could tell him to shut up.
Christian spirit also means trying to bring non-believers to Christ. Why the fuck does that bother you so much? Do you have any evidence that receiving aid was contingent on converting to Christianity, or even listening to so much as a bible verse? And, frankly, so fucking what if they did? Yeah, it’s against the law. Good for them for trying to undermine the fucking Taliban government. Jesus, we’re fighting a war right now to throw these bastards out of Afghanistan, and you’re whining that the missionaries should have been following the Taliban’s laws?
Actually, they do it all the time, you bigotted twit.
CAZZLE, in light of the fact that virtually every reputable report indicates these people were NOT prostletyzing or preaching, I’m very interested by your willingness to believe – no, your insistence – that they were. Using your crystal ball to prove the “truth” and the hell with what those nefarious lying missionaries say, huh?
They may have brought banned materials into Afghanistan, and they may well have showed very poor judgment in doing so. They may have answered direct questions about their faith – something that their faith may very well require them to do – and that may not have been smart, either. If, in your mind, these justify their ordeal and near-execution and forecloses any sympathy for their situation – well, that’s you. As is your inability to recognize that extreme concern – even desperation – are understandable responses from parents and siblings of persons in grave jeopardy.
Darn those life-risking, charitable Christians! Better they should be bitter and meanspirited like you. :rolleyes:
Oh yes, right…I forgot that breaking a law means that you are a bad Christian. Man, that Rosa Parks, what a terrible Christian. And those students breaking the law and sitting in the white section. What terrible Christians they were, too. Fucknut.
Oh yeah, and those black people marching had it coming to them when people turned on the firehoses and sent the dogs. I don’t feel sorry for them in the least, after all, they were breaking the law, marching without a permit and stuff. They should have known that shit was going to happen to them. Marching around demanding equality someplace where it would probably result in them being hurt, possibly killed. Goddam civil rights workers, why can’t they just go around and help without spreading their message? Fucknut.