My mother used to be the “charity case worker of the US” until she had a stroke. She still gets mail from them, all wanting a donation. One came the other day and it said Christians were being flushed-out before the 2008 Olympics in anticipation of another Tianamen Square type of protest.
I was thinking “what a crock”… then I did a search online and to my surprise I was flat- wrong. I thought the Romans times were things of the past. This is what I’m talking about, but if you Google you actually get a good bit of results.
Put it this way, you may not give a flyin’ leap about Christians and what they believe in, but some people actually do and get put in forced labor camps for it.
For just what they believe in. That’s crap, there would be anarchy if such a thing happened here. I never thought such a thing would be such a threat, it’s no wonder something like 60% Chinese what to marry foreigners .
I don’t get it. Did you not realize that China was a very repressive government? Or were you solely upset that Christians were subject to persecution?
Are you more upset to learn that Christians are being persectued than you are to learn that the same kinds of horrible treatment is dished out in heaping spoonfuls to Muslims, democrats, gays, infant girls, labor activists, Tibetans, and a very long list of other minorities?
Do you have a more creditble cite that christian’s are being expelled from China? There was an uproar when the Chinese cracked down on Fulan Gong, a religious group with few allies in western countries, I’m skeptical that they are expelling christian’s without a peep from the western media and politicians. If nothing else, I would expect that the IOC would say something, since the Chinese almost lost the olympics due to thier human rights record.
No doubt that christians, and many other groups, have to deal with some a lot of grief from the Chinese gov’t. My understanding, though, is that the Chinese have stopped harrasing Chinese “house churches”, that is christian groups not officially sanctioned by the gov’t and I haven’t heard of any recent crackdown there by the gov’t due to the olympics.
well Ravenman, most of Asia is quite repressed, but it’s not as though if a government or a news agency wants us to not think in those regards they publish something about it. Ever notice how it’s not up on a marquee somewhere in blinking lights? In other words, it would require one to actually look for such injustice.
In my case I vaguely know of the repression of China, but not to the extent of it. “Our” ongoing relations with China and the media coverage in particular of it paints the ignorant a pleasant picture and from there most take the “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach.
You can’t get upset at me for not knowing or for being upset about it; not to mention you’re straying from the orginal topic.
A friend of mine went to China last year with a group from her church to teach English to some of the kids there and teach Christianity right along with it. She was telling me how they had to learn how to smuggle bible tracts in, as the tracts weren’t allowed to enter the country.
This kind of thing bugs the crap out of me. Risking your life to brainwash people? What’s the point? Why is it so important to some people to force everybody else to believe in their particular mythology? Do they really think all those people are going to go to hell if they don’t become Christians? Anyone who thinks that is an idiot. There is no defensible reason whatsover to proselytize in a country that forbids it and anyone stupid enough to do it while knowing the risks is just a Darwin Award waiting to happen as far as I’m concerned. If you want to teach English or even foment dissent against the government, that’s one thing, but proselytizing people is a selfish waste of time that doesn’t help anybody in any way. I don’t see smuggling Bibles into China as being any different than trying to smuggle hashish out of Turkey. It’s stupid and dangerous and the fairness of the laws in those countries is completely beside the point. I think i’d actually be more sympathetic to a hash smuggler. At least the hash can bring somebody else some pleasure. Harranging people about their religious beliefs never will.
(This goes for any religion, not just Christianity
Christianity can darn well give one pleasure. I’m a not religous, but religion seems to be quite comforting. I’d be more comfortable if I believed there was some heaven for my Soul when I died or that God might look after someone that I care about or even myself. Comfort is pleaurable. It’s not all Hellfire and Brimstone.
Diogenes, I’m also not religious, but proseltyzers sincerely believe they’re saving people so they’ll go to heaven. Going overseas to do missionary work is pretty selfless, and probably pretty thankless. I have a lot of respect for someone who would devote themselves to a cause so wholeheartedly, even placing themselves in danger to do so. Criticising that sincerity is pretty fucked up.
There are plenty of nasty people even more sincere. The whole attitude smacks of “you ignorant Islamic, atheist, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, …” heathen. I’m the wonderful American Christian who can show you the error of your ways.
They broke the law, and they get deported. Boo hoo. Considering the fuss these people raise when Wiccan’s wanted to have Army chaplains, I’ve got zero sympathy. If they were being thrown into prison, it would be another matter. Christian missionaries are one of the last vestiges of the colonialist and the ugly American.
I have a problem with people going into other countries and proseltyzing. Indigenous cultures have been destroyed by missionaries. There is quite a bit of research that has been done, by both Christians and Non-Christians which shows the negative impact of missionary work on cultures and a few papers are on google. Albeit Maoist China is not like a native american tribe, or south american tribe in our modern times, it shows a lack of respect for other beliefs and cultures to go over “there” and “convert” people. If they have so little respect for the beliefs of the Chinese people, and the Chinese culture and laws of the land, I think it shows a lack of respect for the people they are going over to “save”. It may be thankless work done for reasons that are selfless for the missionaries, but do good intentions make a destructive act a “good thing”?
Doesn’t this sound a lot like the Boxer Rebellion? Wasn’t that an effoert to throw out the christians that were undermining the culture, language and traditions of thousands of years?
Disagree…I think prosletyzing is the heighth of selfishness. It’s done for two reasons: First by undertaking this work, * I get to go to Heaven!!!*, so “it’s all about me.” Second, as noted by others, it is assumed that “my way is right and true, while yours is degraded and false,”, which fairly drips with hubris to me.
How would a Mormon feel if a Muslim tried to convert him/her? Pretty damn affronted, I’d be willing to bet. Yet, don’t Muslims believe that Islam is the final prefected word of God, the crystallization of earlier attempts by Jews and Christians?
sincerely believing that one-fifth of the world’s population is going to hell because they do not take faith in the words of a long dead man from a distant and strange country is also pretty fucked up.
Considering all the human rights violations in China, (and sorry to hijack) why exactly is it given most favored nation status?
As to the proselitizing, its a free speech issue; here in America, people are free to attempt to convert anyone to their particular way, that makes us better than the nations which don’t.
The US has free speech. China doesn’t. Anyone who is going to knowingly break the laws of another country is going to have to accept the consequences if they get caught. Whether the laws are just or unjust is completely beside the point. There are some instances where risking life and limb by breaking the laws of another country is commendable. Religious proselytization is not one of those reasons, IMO. It’s presumptious, ethnocentric, chauvanistic and profoundly disrespectful.
I am also not swayed by pleas of sincerity about saving souls. If they really believe that God is going to punish billions of people for not believing exactly what the would be missionaries want them to believe, then those people seriously need to examine their belief system because they worship an evil deity.
