Chen019, you are a liar.

Chen019, you are a liar.

Yes, yes. We all know he is a racist and ignorant and a weasely litttle shit. But what has me moderately pissed off at the moment is his habit of deliberately and blatantly lying about what is written in journal articles.

Take his latest effort. He starts with his usual claim that races equate to human subspecies.

So of course I ask the obvious question. The one that he tries to weasel away from in every thread.

His response is that somebody else has named

Well he has tried this trick ad nauseum in previous threads. Allude to someone else’s list of races, then when he gets asked to identify them, he says that those aren’t his list of races. They are just an example. He doesn’t believe in that list.

So, to stop the little weasel from squirming away, I pin him down

To which he responds

Having actually read the Gill paper, which Chen has not, I have noted that Gill is explicitly and solely talking about US Blacks, as the term is used by US law enforcement and forensics. He is not in any way referring to a geographically distinct group. Indeed, Gill goes to pains to point out that Blacks and Whites are geographically blended within the US.

So I ask the obvious question:

Now, an honest person, or even a smart person, at this stage would have simply have said they made a mistake. That Gill never said any such thing, and that they misunderstood him. But Chen isn’t smart or honest, and he has a problem: he has such a long and extensive history of outright lying about scientific references that he really can’t afford any more.

For almost two days I keep hounding him to answer these questions, with help from Mr Dibble: Where does Gill ever refer to sub-Saharan Africans, and where does Gill say that there are morphological traits that are diagnostic of a sub-Saharan African race.

And for two days he keeps weaselling and evading with non-responses like “He refers to blacks” and “Gill refers to six geographic races. He includes in those “black (negroid) and white (caucasoid)” and “When gill refers to negroid he means“those from sub saharan africa.

For two fucking days this goes on. Even after we have repeatedly shown, with references that Gill is only ever talking about US Blacks as the term is used by US law enforcement and forensics.

Then finally he grudgingly admits

Oh for fuck’s sake you lying fucking weasel.

You fucking claimed that there were morphologically different, geographically distinct human races.

We asked you repeatedly what the names of these morphologically different, geographically distinct races were.

You repeatedly told us that sub-Saharan African was a morphologically different, geographically distinct race. And you repeatedly claimed that Gill was referring to a race that was morphologically different, geographically restricted to sub-Saharan Africa. Even after we repeatedly pointed out, with fucking quotes, that Gill was only talking about “Blacks” in North America as the term is used by US law enforcement and forensics, you still claimed multiple times that Gill was referring to a race that was geographically distinctive of sub-Saharan Africa.

You didn’t make a mistake here. You lied. You blatantly and deliberately and repeatedly lied about a scientific reference. And when you get caught out, your sole response is “So what?”

So what? So what is that you are promulgating hurtful, vindictive, racist ignorance, and you are doing so wilfully by deliberately misrepresenting scientists. That is so what, you racist sack of shit.

I won’t even go into the way that he lied about Irish in that same thread, something that he simply refuses to acknowledge or even deny. Or the way that in other threads he lied and told us that an author claimed that they could assign races to skeletons based purely on bone structure, when the author in fact spent several pages elaborating how they usually need to reject the race assigned from the bones in favour of more common races for the area the bones were found in.

Chen repeatedly, deliberately and barefacedly lies about the literature in order or advance hi racist views. And when he gets caught out, his sole response is “So what”

Ignorant, slimy racist piece of shit.

There is no point in even engaging him, might as well go debate a phrenologist.

It’s all very well to say “ignore him” but other people reading might very well go “mmm, he has a bunch of scientific cites, there might be something to this. I guess the jury’s still out” when it really, really isn’t. One isolated profession or another happening to find the concept of race (as used in the highly-filtered, reduced-diversity USA) useful in their work, does not overturn scientific consensus.

I do so love when he posts links to 80-page academic papers which supposedly support his argument, especially when even a cursory reading of them usually reveals that either they don’t remotely say what he claims they say or they prove to be overtly racist and biased from the outset, making them worthless as a cite. I can only assume that he thinks we won’t bother reading big documents with big words in them and therefore he can hornswoggle us into thinking his positions are objectively justifiable.

Too late to edit, but:

He also loves to play a bit of three-card monte with genotypes/phenotypes/social subcultures, in that he’ll be talking about one thing and when you point out that his argument is flawed he’ll pull the “hey presto I was talking about one of the other categories” switcheroo. Keep your eye on the lady at all times.

Bump.

Add geography to the mix and that’s the bullshit he was trying to pull in that thread…

Starts claiming races are defined by geography and phenotype, then says that Gill found phenotypic differences in cultural races, then that someone else found genetic links between cultural races, then claims that cultural races are geographic… so therefore cultural races are geographic.

Keep your eye on the lady indeed.

I also love the way that he thinks he can use an assertion that his argument is true as evidence that it is true. He did that at the end of that thread: we all agree that races aren’t clear because we all agree that people of different races interbreed.

No you slimy weasel, we don’t all agree with that because you have utterly failed to provide any evidence that races even exist. Kinda hard for the members of a non-existent set have any characteristics at all.

Groan.

:smiley:

This post tells me a lot about you :wink:

I’ve given up on having a rational discussion with Chen019. He poisons every thread he enters with his racist bullshit of lies, circular reasoning, and false cites.

Thanks though to Blake and MrDibble for providing actual science for the peanut gallery. I regret that I’m too lazy to contribute much to the effort. But I am grateful that you are taking the – considerable – trouble to do so. And I have learned a thing or two myself. Well done!

:smack:

Oh, I did notice this property of Chen019 a long time ago, it is a feature of his, not a bug.

Besides what Gyrate mentions, he is so dumb that he never notices when the cites actually help the side he is opposing most of the time. I also had to lock horns with him before with the racism issue and then I realized that he was more helpful to the opposition that his side.

The best example was when an issue related to racism and environmentalism cropped up, Chen019 brought forth an expert that he claimed supported the position of fake environmentalists that use the carbon footprint issue to demand an end to immigration. Preferably the one that is made of the wrong kind of immigrants.

The problem was that the only show of support to that was that the expert, Lester R. Brown, once said that the immigrants numbers are a factor, but the bulk of his work demonstrated that immigration was not important on the solutions he proposed, even worse, the organizations Lester R. Brown recommended even in his book that I did bother to check (Plan B) like GRIST, are notorious for also denouncing fake environmentalists like Chen019.

I pointed that to him and he just continues posting like if nothing was wrong with the evidence or even the experts that he claims are supporting his tripe.

Have you read Risch? I think you should read this 2002 paper by Risch and Tang. You really should read Risch’s paper. Risch has asked this question but you will need to read his 2002 paper. Are you certain youve read Risch et al?!?!?
Anybody wanna do the same for his cite of Sesardic or Gil? My vote; bot.

Have you read Risch?
He makes it clear -
Folks over there are quite different
From people here.
And where are the clones?
Send in the clones…

Chen is a racist. He’s just too much of a coward to say so openly. Rand Rover too. Instead of just saying what he means ‘Science proves blacks are inferior!’, he is ‘just asking questions’.

Yeesh. I have taken great pains to clearly explain my position and thoughts on these issues in countless threads, and still some idiots like doccathode think they are mind readers and that I believe blacks are inferior. Well, I don’t believe that. I do, however, believe that doccathode is inferior.

34 minutes and two posts intervening; why did you feel the need to bump the thread?

:wink:

He had a feeling it was needed. :wink:

I just wanted to say, Blake, that from the perspective of this uninformed and fairly ignorant 'doper, that he’s not fooling anyone in that thread, and that it’s pretty obvious what he’s doing there. His drive by links and mis-characterization of what the folks he’s purportedly quoting is fairly blatant, with even a cursory glance and by even someone as uninformed on this subject as I am.

Just wanted you to know, in case you were afraid that he was getting traction with the non-technical types.

-XT