I’d say someone who “deliberately and repeatedly emotionally and physically abus[es] a loved one for [their] own pleasure” has an illness.
In that sense, they seem the same to me.
I’d say they are virtually the same accusation.
So according to Eutychus schizophrenics should be ashamed of their medical condition, just as wife beaters should be ashamed of their crimes.
Nice one Euty. Inflict shame on people who have no control over the thing your are shaming them for.
No I did not say that. I said that people who accuse others of those things wantonly should be equally ashamed. See the difference?
No. When did I say anything about schizophrenia?
Which I never disputed. The point I am making here is that you are the one who brought up the symptom, at which point Diogenes proposed a probable cause of the symptom which you mentioned.
In case you haven’t recently visited the thread that started all this, chicksdigscars has been joined by handsomeharold, who sees “energy beings.” Must be a convention in town. I figure lekatt can’t be far behind.
I’m surprised That someone on a aboard like this would suggest that ignorant and prejudiced responses should be treated with respect. Would you be accepting of a white supremacist who stated it was insulting to be asked if he had any negro heritage? Prejudiced responses do not demand a respect at all. How about a person who said that he found it insulting that he had to work alongside homosexuals?
This thread is incredible. The number of people stating that people with mental illnesses should be as ashamed as if they were criminals.
It is all to easy to understand how people could believe that homosexuals should be ashamed of what they are.
I’m with you, Blake.
And like catsix I have a cousin (actually two, sadly) with schizophrenia, and it’s an illness for which we should have sympathy and understanding, not disgust and horror. I understand that many people treat those with mental illnesses negatively – but that’s because they’re ignorant asshats who should join the rest of us in the 21st century. I mean, since when is the SDMB supposed to tolerate this kind of lunkheaded ignorance?
What chicksdigcars doesn’t seem willing to consider is that the schizophrenia question was not an “accusation,” it was one of many possibilities Diogenes the Cynic offered as alternate, rational explanations for someone having visions that others can’t see.
Compare and contrast these two approaches:
Example #1
JANE: I saw a ghost when I was a kid. I have no proof and no one else saw it.
GOOFUS: OMG, what are you, fucking schizo?
Example #2
JANE: I saw a ghost when I was a kid. I have no proof and no one else saw it.
GALLANT: There are other things that can cause visions or hallucinations. For example, were you on medication? Were you ill? Are you schizophrenic?
Lesson Learned: While Goofus is an accusatory rude SOB who is now picking up his teeth as a result of Jane’s right hook, Gallant is an inquisitive and responsible person in the search for the most likely explanation of this alleged supernatural phenomena, and has thereby earned Jane’s respect as a potential lifemate.
Seems fairly clear to me. If chicksdigcars hadn’t gotten so over-the-top defensive and borderline-obnoxious the second her ghost story was questioned, she might not have been so quick to see DTC’s remarks for what they were … part of standard SDMB methodology.
IMHO of course.
I never “accused” CDC of being schizophrenic. I asked her if she was because she reported having repeated hallucinations. It’s a perfectly valid question. Schizophrenia is one of the main causes of hallucinations. There are other causes too, such as drugs, but someone who keeps hallucinating “ghosts” everywhere she goes has a pretty good chance of being schizophrenic. There is also nothing shameful about having schizophrenia nor is there anything insulting about asking about it.
She brought up her “ghost” sightings in an attempt to prove that ghosts are real. In a systematic debate about the reality of ghosts any such assertion is going to be subject to logical analysis and hallucinations (possibly from schizophrenia) are a far more likely explanation for such “sightings” than real ghosts. If she doesn’t want her assertions to be logically dissected then she shouldn’t make them in GD, especially when her assertions go to the heart of the topic being discussed.
No, you did not.
Your response:
Yes.
Blake, when did I say that mentally ill people should be ashamed of their illness?
You said, “This thread is incredible. The number of people stating that people with mental illnesses should be as ashamed as if they were criminals.”
Apparently your mother never taught you that asking such personal questions like " Are you schizophrenic?" is rude. There is nothing shameful about being schizophrenic, just don’t fucking ask someone about it.
You guys are just assholes who want to rip apart anyone who doesn’t take what you say as gospel.
And Blake you assume that people who continue to beat their spouses love them. That is a BIG assumption. If you love someone, you don’t beat them. JMO. If I’m borderline obnoxious, it is because you are a borderline asshole. No I take that back. Nothing borderline about you, Blake.
Dang my post got eaten up by the board. Lemme try again:
I’m with you, Blake.
And like catsix I have a cousin (actually two, sadly) with schizophrenia, and it’s an illness for which we should have sympathy and understanding, not disgust and horror. I understand that many people treat those with mental illnesses negatively – but that’s because they’re ignorant asshats who should join the rest of us in the 21st century. I mean, since when is the SDMB supposed to tolerate this kind of lunkheaded ignorance?
What chicksdigcars doesn’t seem willing to consider is that the schizophrenia question was not an “accusation,” it was one of many possibilities Diogenes the Cynic offered as alternate, rational explanations for someone having visions that others can’t see.
Compare and contrast these two approaches:
Example #1
JANE: I saw a ghost when I was a kid. I have no proof and no one else saw it.
GOOFUS: OMG, what are you, fucking schizo?
Example #2
JANE: I saw a ghost when I was a kid. I have no proof and no one else saw it.
GALLANT: There are other things that can cause visions or hallucinations. For example, were you on medication? Were you ill? Are you schizophrenic?
Lesson Learned: While Goofus is an accusatory rude SOB who is now picking up his teeth as a result of Jane’s right hook, Gallant is an inquisitive and responsible person in the search for the most likely explanation of this alleged supernatural phenomena, and has thereby earned Jane’s respect as a potential lifemate.
Seems fairly clear to me. If chicksdigcars hadn’t gotten so over-the-top defensive and borderline-obnoxious the second her ghost story was questioned, she might not have been so quick to see DTC’s remarks for what they were … part of standard SDMB methodology.
IMHO of course.
I think Blake is completely missing the point: CDC isn’t saying that he thinks wife-beating and schizophrenia are equivalent, he’s saying that, due to the stigma society places on each, acusing someone of either is equivalently insulting.
And, (only if my summary above is accurate) I agree with him. It’s wrong, and it sucks, but this is a really shitty planet to be mentally ill on. People look down on the mentally ill, people using accusations of mental illness as casual offhand insults, and the government places restrictions on people who have or had a mental illness it doesn’t place on healthy people; e.g., can’t serve in the military, get a pilots certificate, own a gun, work in law enforcement, etc. (some of these are possible with appeals, or after a lengthy period of time has passed, some aren’t).
There’s no way to get around the fact that being mentally ill has a huge stigma attached. Even more so then wife-beating, come to think of it.
Yipe sorry for the doppelganger posts, guys. 
Not a good way for a newbie to get started.
Chicksdigscars has a right not to discuss her own medical situation, but she doesn’t have a right to be insulted at being asked.
She presented herself as a case study, having claimed to have seen apparitions. It is perfectly reasonable the rest of us to discuss possible explanations for the case study.
Speculating as to another person’s mental illness might be nosy, but it isn’t rude when they’ve already put themselves in the public eye. Chicksdigscars sees ghosts. Why is it more offensive to suggest she’s halucinating than it is to suggest that she has divinely gifted mystic powers? I certainly don’t think she has a right to take offence.
On the other hand, I don’t think she was equating mental illness with spousal violence. Just being a little extreme.
I find it humorous that such an accusation is made from somebody who thinks that their word is enough to prove the existance of ghosts.
I’ve heard ghosts. And I am not faintly in anyway schizophrenic. But then agian I don’t EXPECT people to believe me. Its more fun when they DON’T.
And having worked with disabled children for 18 years I have to restrain the urge to BITCHSLAP anyone who uses the term ‘retarded’ especially as a joke. So seems more than fair to be insulted if someone asks you if you are schizophrenic.
QUOTE]*Originally posted by Early Out *
**In case you haven’t recently visited the thread that started all this, chicksdigscars has been joined by handsomeharold, who sees “energy beings.” Must be a convention in town. I figure lekatt can’t be far behind. **
[/QUOTE]
Ok, fine, Chicksdigcars sees ghosts. There are no scientific explanations for ghosts. HandsomeHarold sees energy beings, last time I checked, no real scientific bases for those either. Fine, but someone explain how these statements are any different from statements such as “God speaks to me in my heart” or “God gave me the light and now I am going to heaven”. There is no real difference. All four are statements of faith. Yet, if any Christian was treated and ridiculed for holding their beliefs like Chicksdigcars is, there would be a lot of angry people.
As far as the mentally ill thing goes, no one wants to be ill. Being ill is to look like crap, think like crap and feel like crap. So if one asks another if they are ill, they are implying the above to be true of the other. It is possible for you to not want to be thought of that way without implying that the mentally ill should be ashamed or are not worthy of help.
My 0.02
Thanks
TorieI got the sense in the “ghost” thread that CDS was ganged-up on because she was using terrible debating techniques and being rather smarmy about it. The schizophrenia thing was, I’m sure, and honest question asked by DtC. I’m sure it wasn’t meant as an insult. I also can see, though, that it might have been taken as an insult. If you can’t see that, then you have your eyes closed. People are insulted by questions about their health, especially about their mental health, all the time. Shoud they be? Probably not. So what?
CDS: You need to take valid questions about your beliefs as simply that-- it’s not an attempt to belittle you personally. I think people are reticent about giving your the benefit of the doubt becacuse your debating technique, such as it was in that thread, was sloppy and lacking in reasoned analysis. Good luck in the future. I think this Pitting is way overboard, considering the offense. A tempest in a teapot.
I’m impressed that someone who believes themselves to be a HSP - that is, someone who “… is aware of subtleties in his/her surroundings…” and is “… affected by other people’s moods” - is completely unable to sense the subtleties in the enviroment of GD that suggest that unproveable statements are not considered a rational form of debate.
OH, I see. It’s a shitty planet so that make bigoted and ignorant responses OK. You should have said so earlier.
Let’s look at this another way.
CDC isn’t saying that he thinks wife-beating and homosexuality are equivalent, he’s saying that, due to the stigma society places on each, accusing someone of either is equivalently insulting.
And I agree with him. It’s wrong, and it sucks, but this is a really shitty planet to be gay on.
or
CDC isn’t saying that he thinks wife-beating and being black are equivalent, he’s saying that, due to the stigma society places on each, accusing someone of either is equivalently insulting.
And, I agree with him. It’s wrong, and it sucks, but this is a really shitty planet to be black on
Wake up call: this is just plain WRONG. It is bigoted, ignorant, dark ages bullshit. Do people really need to be told that being bigoted is wrong for every specific group? Do they need to be given a list of people about whom bigoted and ignorant statements are not acceptable?
** Metacom** I can only assume that you would not dream of making those statements about blacks or gays. Why the hell do you think it is acceptable to make them about people with mental illness?