I know it is sad what we do to our own children. Karoly berates the girls for gaining a 1/2 a lb. They have a distorted relationship with food in their futures.
And what happens to them in terms of their whole lives afterwards? How many of them go on to become sport commentators or judges/ coaches or the like? Very few, I think. The endorsements are gone; the money (hopefully invested and squirreled away) no longer the gush it was (if ever), the celebrity and adulation gone. It isn’t a life I’d want for any of my kids (not that they have the talent). I’m sure for some it’s great and they carry the wonder of it their whole lives. But others must feel some loss, no?
I almost was embarrassed - I got home and realized I might have packed the reference I mentioned above, since I’m in the middle of a move.
However, it’s not packed yet! (I’m not sure if I should say “go me!” or if I should use the “yeek” face, frankly).
Alas, the text says nothing about identification of age by skeletal markers. I would probably need a more textbook-like tome for that. Sorry!
Even the most successful of “woman” gymnasts have problems later on, including serious ones such as early-onset osteoporosis. Like, showing up the late 20’s.
I’m with you on this. I can’t remember seeing many gymnasts as thick as the American team. They just look different than past American teams and different than the other teams there at the Olympics. Maybe it’s just that the Chinese girls are so tiny that our girls look bigger, I don’t know.
Huh. I think the Americans look normal and healthy. Especially compared to the Chinese.
Alicia Sacramone is 5’1", 117lbs. That seems normal to me for a fit 20 year old. However, she does havea neck like a ham, as someone else in the thread said. Shawn Johnson, the one who looks like a little fireplug, is 16, but only 4’9" and 90lbs. Big difference in height and weight in just 4 years. And Johnson is definitely the better performer this year.
Bela Karolyi flat-out said in his interview during the all-arounds that the Chinese were lying about their gymnasts’ age and cheating. He’s not even dancing around the subject.
Oh well, we got the silver medal. Good job US gymnasts. 
Here’s something no one else is mentioning. The Japanese gymnastics team looked just as young as China’s are they “cheating” too? Maybe it’s just the fact that asian women at that age look young. Also, if China had to supposedly use under aged girls to win the women’s gold medal where was the edge in men’s gymnastics? They dominated that event as well.
You know, i’m pretty ashamed at the people trying to cry “cheater” at every opportunity. Unless there is official action it just seems like some people have sour grapes and are padding defeat with controversy.
The japanese don’t look as young as the chinese girls, no way. And people were talking about the cheating long before the chinese won. Look at them! it is blatantly obvious they are cheating.
I finally got to watch the Chinese gymnastics team, and just based on time spent teaching teens in Japan, I didn’t see any that looked impossibly young, especially if you factor in poor early childhood nutrition or coaches with Karoly-esque psychosis. The only one who looked suspicious was Yilin Yang (the half-bald one), but there’s a 34-year-old designer in my office who looks almost exactly like her - including skeletal face and badly receding hairline. By no coincidence, she was also a gymnast.
I doubt it. I could take an educated guess at male or female, but adult hands don’t change THAT much over time. Given a normal healthy person who doesn’t display heavy veining, I could probably get within 10 years though. A lot of the information comes from direct comparison from the rest of the body.
<abandons thought of testing you by posting a pic of my hands online>
Just kidding.
I downloaded the ridiculous Silverlight last night, just to watch the prelims of “women’s” gymnastics (I don’t consider females of 16 to be women, either). I have to agree with AL: The Chinese girls may be less than 16, but I don’t see them as 12. I’d say 14-15. Most of the Chinese women I’ve met are tiny in both height and frame. The execrable makeup didn’t help, but they don’t seem all that childlike to me. They have that flare of the hips that most teen girls do, as well as (at least) breast buds. No bets on if they menstruate, but that’s a body fat issue, not necc. an age one.
I will watch the Americans later–but based on that one photo (girl with ham neck), I immediately thought steroid abuse which would add a whole other level of tragedy to this mess.
She just has a muscular neck, it’s not a big deal. I think she looks just fine.
I agree that there is a big difference between individuals cheating and a conspiracy by officials. Whether the Chinese have done that, I don’t know, but that kind of conspiracy does seem to be part of the package in these Communist regimes.
I don’t see that happening. Gymnastics is like an arms race when it comes to difficulty. I think that’s why they changed the scoring system, because the old system just couldn’t accomodate the level of difficulty it has reached. The only way I can see to favor the skill set of older girls/women as opposed to younger girls would be to remove the difficulty score altogether or have compulsory-only competitions (where everyone does the exact same routines). I dont see them doing either one of those things anytime soon, because it would make the sport too boring. On the other hand, I believe they would like to slow down the difficulty arms race, and I think raising the age limit is an attempt to do that.
And I have no doubt he knows a thing or two about that particular subject! Personally, I think he’s probably right.
I don’t think the Japanese girls look anywhere near as young as the Chinese. And your point about the men is one of the things I think is sad about the whole thing…they probably could have won gold either way. Their system there in both gymnastics and diving is amazing. Of course, it’s ethically questionable, but it sure does create great athletes.
I found it impossible not to root for the Chinese girls. If the stories are true, and they’re removed from their homes at an early age and only see their families once or twice a year in order to train…well, then for their sake, I am glad that they did well. Of course, their success will only perpetuate these kinds of state-sanctioned practices which I find deplorable. However, as a mother, I just couldn’t root against these kids and found their steely nerves and really bad make-up jobs to be endearing.
Not to say that I was rooting against the U.S. The American girls put in their time, too, and their families sacrificed, too.
I don’t know. I just wished they could all win. 
BTW, I hate HATE the red aluminum foil leotards of the US team. Whoever picked it should be beaten with a silver medal.
Her neck is the circumference of my thigh–an estimate, of course. Frankly, all gymnasts look a bit odd to me–the body type, the muscle development, the lack of body fat (not that one needs lots of that) add up to hobbits to me. Speed skaters also look cartoonish to me. (not to take anything away from the achievements of these athletes, I’m just saying.)
While I get the whole outrage at China’s (obvious to me) cheating, I’m more disturbed by the fact that they take these girls from their homes at 3 years old! And that essentially that’s it…they see their families (maybe) once a year after that.
I was listening to an interview with one of the female Chinese divers the other day and she was saying (in a heartbreakingly calm and matter of fact tone) that she cried the first time she was told to dive, that she didn’t want to dive, and that the coach of the team took her up on the high dive and pushed her off! At (IIRC) 5 years old! My blood was literally boiling at that…can’t remember when I’ve been that outraged by that kind of systematic and official action (last time I got THAT angry was watching the special on Islam on NG where they had the little girl held down screaming as they forcefully circumcised her…I was crying AND boiling).
I know that China wants badly to win in the Olympics, and that it’s very important to them…but my heart bleeds for these little girls and what they are going through. Hell, my heart bleeds for OUR girls (and guys) who are so narrowly focused on a (FUCKING!) sport that they give up their early lives for it.
Parents who push their kids into this stuff gain my full measure of contempt…COUNTRIES that FORCE their kids into it? I can’t even begin to tell you my level of rage at that. That they cheat on the age thingy is, to me, pretty minor in comparison. Fuck em with a rusty spike.
-XT
I agree with you 100%, xtisme. It actually makes me uncomfortable to watch the Olympics, knowing how their “system” works. They told a story about one of the gymnasts, 20 years old now, who was drafted into it when she was 3, as you said. They said at one point she called her parents and wanted to quit, and they, knowing that it meant a better life for the family, said, no, stay with the program. It makes me seriously wonder how much of a “better life” they have, as in, it will be made a hell of a lot worse for you if she quits.
I think the reason these totalitarian regimes want to succeed in a situation like this is because they think it helps legitimize the way they run their country. Little do they know how much worse it makes them look.
Oh, it’s not open retaliation you have to worry. About. But in a country like China, very little things (to us) are huge deals. They would be kicked out of their apartment - and in China, you can’t just go out and get another one. They’d be forced to beg relatives to take them in, which would seriously pinch but families in terms of living space. They might be fired from their jobs.