You can meet them in school, or in lanes, or at sea,
In church, or in trains, or in shops, or at tea;
For the saints of God are just folk like me,
And I mean to be one too!
(All together, now, from the top: )
…
I recommend everyone clicking on APB’s link above. Fascinating. H4E, it refutes the idea that Halloween is of pagan origin - but confirms the idea that it’s of Catholic origin, so I’m not sure if that makes it any better in your eyes.
Doesn’t the verse about being unequally yoked refer to marriages, anyway? Scary implications if it refers to general associations. How can you spread the truth if you won’t associate with those who don’t yet accept it?
I dunno; I’d think that this being a free country and all anyone who wants to celebrate can do so, and anyone who doesn’t want to doesn’t have to, and shouldn’t be accused of scarring their children. I would prefer that anyone who doesn’t think it’s appropriate just turn off their porch light rather than passing out venomous tracts, but I don’t make the rules and wouldn’t make that a rule even if I did.
[nitpick]
I do have a nitpick with “Truth or Treat”. The traditional Halloween use of “Trick or Treat” is clearly an exclusive or, and in this case, a threat (“give me candy, or in the alternative I shall burn your house down”). This is overlooked somewhat with the cute little fairy princesses and whatnot. The whole point is that you don’t have both – if you give the brat a treat he’s not supposed to TP your live oaks. Assuming that “Truth or Treat” is analogous to “Trick or Treat”, if the kids actually get candy at the event . . .
I’d change the name to “Truth and Treat”, or “Truth Inclusive (Logical) or Treat”, and only keep the ToT form if it was, in fact, a meeting of dental hygienists, and the truth is that it’s important to floss and no, you don’t get any skittles.
[/nitpick]
I don’t know if this makes any sense, but from a completely uneducated observational standpoint, Halloween and the superstitions and rituals associated with it seem much more in line with Catholic belief and practice than Protestant.
On preview, I see masonite has also suggested a connection there.
Sorry if I was perpetuating a popular misconception. Anyway, this quote has more to do with the core subject matter of this thread:
Truth or Treat ? Upon reading this, my only response is, to paraphrase H.L. Mencken, a fundie is someone who is bothered by the fact that someone somewhere might be happy.
Also, APB thanks for the quote and link. It always seemed to me that people who lived in the Bible Belt (i.e., the southern U.S.) were the ones more bent-out-of-shape about Halloween due to the strength of the fundamentalist Protestant churches there. I grew up in California and Washington state and never encountered any fundie-based hostility towards the holiday. Additionally, I suspect that lingering anti-Catholicism plays a big role in the fundies anti-Halloween attitude since their theological tradition draws a lot upon the old Puritanical distaste for any celebration with “Papist” and pagan overtones (which is why, for a time, the celebration of Christmas was banned in the New England colonies).
There may be no connection whatsoever - but did anyone notice that the top prize awarded to the golfer who won the Buick Challenge this past weekend was $666,000?
The portents are not good. I don’t think “Truth or Treat” is going to cut it when the Evil One is obviously stalking the land.
Uhh… sorta. I happened to be reading the Phule books when I registered and couldn’t think of a better name. I’ll probably change it to The Obscure Child or Serafina Pekkala eventually… I’ve never read Asprin’s MYTH books, though.
Mr. Pengvin, us christians are the most joyful poeple you’ll wanna meet?
Who have you been going to church with?
Singing praises is the most fun I’v ever had.
Sinning isn’t fun, though thats a hijack there.
cj: Hi!
Well, I’ve read a few christians, including M.j.agee say they think (don’t know for sure!) Jesus was born not in December, what with the sheeps outside and all, too cold; but in September, specifically the Jewish New Year.
It seems appropriate somehow, but I think they celebrate Chrsitmas in December, cause the weather is so lousy we Need a holiday to make it bearable (at least here in Ohio).
Even when I was a southnern Baptist back in high school I can’t remember them getting their panties in a bunch about halloween. My family was Roman Catholic until I was seven and we caught no flack when mom made me a devil costume. She made it out of a dyed bedsheet, a whole body suit with skull cap, horns and tail. It was really neat.
I’m not an evangelical Lutheran and we’re pretty easy going on such stuff. No one got upset when one of our part time pastors made a parable about the Harry Potter movie for children’s time just before the main sermon. I’m sure some fundies would be upset with the fact that she is a lesbian too.
For an interesting take on the halloween issue take a look at the movie A Perfect World. It’s a sleeper and quite good IMO, with a very atypical role for Kevin Costner. He’s a criminal on the lam who takes a little boy hostage but treats him well and takes him trick or treating since his Jehova’s Witness mother would not allow it.
[hijack continued]
Hi Vanilla,
Sheep live outside all year long in England which has a much colder climate than Jerusalem, so that’s not an argument against Christ having been born in December. Hmmm. That’s interesting. On quickly re-reading the beginning of all 4 gospels (my Bible now sits beside my computer), there isn’t a mention of lambs in Matthew’s or Luke’s description of Christ’s birth (Mark and John don’t describe it at all). I was always under the impression it was. Anyway, I was told that the dates set for Christmas deliberately coincide with the Roman festival of Saturnalia, apparently on the theory that if people are going to be celebrating anyway, let’s give them a holy reason to do so.
[/hijack]
Actually, on “The Simpsons” Ned Flanders never seemed to have a problem with Halloween (e.g., there was the time he put up his Halloween decorations early only to have them shot down by Marge in the ep where she was a police officer and thought they were criminals gunning for her).
Anyway, back on-topic, many of the replies and links provided here only further convince me that the anti-Halloween campaign by the fundies is something that’s arisen in only the last 25 years or so.
I know what you mean about missing the feel of this time of year. Strangely enough, we actually have halloween in Saudi. All sorts of kids get into it, locals as well as N. American types. Is Halloween frowned upon in Dubai?
When should we have ME Dope? We could all hang around and smoke sheesha.
Aw, you guys, quit picking on His4Ever. At least at “Truth or [should be ‘and’, I agree]Treat” the kids get to dress up and get candy, which we generally agree is the current form of Halloween celebration.
Heck, I was raised Jewish, and I would have memorized anything required to get more candy at Halloween! And I don’t think the most fundamentalist church would have objected to my fairy princess getup, either. Well, maybe they wouldn’t have liked the “magic wand” with the glitter in it…
Back to the OP. I suspect that the folks who are against all Halloween celebrations of any kind on the grounds that “Halloween is Satanist” are making themselves more publicly heard than they were 25 years ago. Also, those who feel this way can now get together online, making for larger and more vocal groups, rather than just ranting and shaking their collective fists inside their own churches without outside sanction or support.
