Yesterday I was talking to a friend of mine and, trying to make small talk, I asked her if she had any plans for Halloween. Here’s a little bit of how the conversation went:
Friend: I don’t celebrate Halloween.
ladybug: Oh. (Thinking she was referring to trick-or-treating). Did you when you were little?
Friend: I stopped when I was six. That’s how old I was when I found out what it really is.
ladybug: What do you mean, “what it really is”?
Friend: It’s the Satantic worship of the Devil.
I argued with her a little after that, pointing out that it was a Pagan celebration, not Devil worship (please correct me if I’m wrong about that!) but she insisted that she was right.
Then just now I opened an e-mail from her and it contained links to Christian websites that state why Halloween is the celebration of the Devil. I think she’s trying to convert me or something. :rolleyes:
Anyway, I’m trying to come up with a list of rebuttal links to send her with the real meaning of Halloween. So far I have the following:
First you’ll have to convince your friend that Paganism is not the same thing as Devil worship. And good luck doing that. The argument, as I understand it, is that none of the pagan gods ever really existed, and if they ever did anything for their followers, it was because they were demons and devils masquerading as gods. Therefore, pagans were worshipping devils. To say that they couldn’t have worshipped Satan since they didn’t believe in such an entity means nothing to someone who believes in the existence of Satan, since The Evil One ™ would have existed whether or not pagans believed in him. It would be kind of like trying to argue that since people in ancient Sumeria believed the Earth was flat, they couldn’t have lived on a round world. Sure, to you and me the roundness of the Earth is an incontrovertable fact and the existence and nature of Satan is subject to opinion, but to the folks you’re dealing with, Satan’s existence is just as solid and real a fact as the Earth’s being round.
So I’d approach the problem by emphasizing that pagans who were unaware of the Judeo-Christian god might have tried to find goodness somewhere in the world, and striven after God the best they could. They might have, through God’s mercy and grace, come up with some religious ideas that were good and that would be acceptable to a Christian. Maybe God would even have prepared the way for Christianity by planting ideas and images in pagan religion that would mirror or complement Christianity. And honoring ancestors and remembering the dead is not inherently un-Christian. While we know that some pagan religions did practice human sacrifice, there’s no evidence that Samhain was a feast on which the Celts sacrificed humans, and any information we have about Celtic religious practices comes from outsiders who may have been trying to slander them, or even from people who very possibly just didn’t know what they were talking about. So just because something has pagan roots doesn’t mean it’s automatically Satanic, and evidence that Samhain involved human sacrifice is slim at best. (Not to say there isn’t evidence that the Celts did practice human sacrifice…but best not to go into that.)
You can try that. I won’t guarantee success. But at the very least, you’ll give her something to think about.
You could try asking her these questions:
Why is it called Halloween? Halloween comes from All Hallow’s Eve, because it is the evening before All Hallows or All Saint’s Day. All Saint’s day is the Catholic day dedicated to honoring all of the saints. It is also usually the day when people are supposed to honor their own dead, their ancestors, and the family and loved ones that have passed on.
Why would the Catholic church include a day for Satan worshiping in their calendar of holy days? Of course, she may be of the group which believes that Catholics are satan-worshipers. :rolleyes: But in that case, there’s no hope for her any way.
In researching this, I ran across this article: The Soul’s Professor which I thought was a moving article about living with death.
Many cultures have a holy day to honor their dead; in the temperate zone, it will usually occur in the autumn, because this is when the world seems to be dying. It is often accompanied by imagery of death and evil spirits.
Don’t tell me, let me guess…your friend is a Jehovah’s Witness? This appears to be a common belief of the Witnesses.
Zyada, there could a problem with your origins argument. Don’t Pagan holidays predate those of the Catholic church? IIRC, Christmas and All Saint’s Day celebrations take place during the same time of year as Pagan celebrations. Some believe that the Church borrowed those celebrations in an effort to convert Pagans.
I wasn’t referencing the origin of the holiday; I was going into the origin of the word. I did this to point out that there is a long history of association with Halloween and Christianity. While the holiday originated with pagans, I don’t think you can ignore the hundreds of years of history of halloween being a christian holiday. The Catholic church adopted the holiday, but they modified the meaning to fit their belief system.
But actually, I don’t think it originated with the pagans. I think it, like most holidays, originated in the human psyche. When you look at holy days, they seem to always fulfill a basic human emotional need. In the case of Halloween, this is the need to deal with death in all the mysterious ways that it can find you.
The origins of Halloween are from the catholic holiday All Halows Eve, but over the years it has evolved into a commercial holliday. I read somewhere today that its the 2nd more popular holiday when it comes to money spent on it. Probably a better way to phrase that last sentence but I’m in a hurry to get to my next class. But I think people who think its a holiday to warship the devil are just making excuses for their lack of ability to be creative and have fun. But thats just me.
Thanks to everyone for the info. I sent her the stuff this morning, and here’s what she wrote to me in return:
It seems that no matter what I tell her, she’s determined to believe that it’s a holiday for devil worship. I don’t know what more I can do. At least I tried to reason with her.
But now I know why she got so quiet when I told her that one of my favorite shows is Buffy.
AFAIK, she belongs to a non-denominational church (or at least that’s what she’s told me). I do know that throughout college she was always bringing me to the Christian bookstores in town and trying to get me to go to Christian music concerts with her. Sometimes I felt like she was trying to convert me, but she never mentioned any specific beliefs or quoted the Bible or anything like that. The conversation from the other day was the first indication I had that her beliefs are more conservative than I’d thought.
From what I know of Witnesses, which I admit isn’t all that much, she certainly sounds like one. As I mentioned in another Halloween thread, I live with someone who studied with the Witnesses for several years until she had enough of their BS. They told her that all her (non-Witness) friends are “evil” unless she convinced them to convert, in which case they’d be “saved.”
SBJ, I posted this in another of your drive by Xan trolling threads, but maybe you missed it:
FTR, Halloween was first codified as a holiday by Pope Gregory III in the 8th century when he moved All Saints Day to November 1, making October 31 All Hallows Eve, or Hallow’een. If you’re going to preach, at least get your facts straight, will ya? Halloween is a Christian holiday. Sheesh!
Please reread the OP. I never said that Christianity was “truly scary” or that it’s beliefs were ignorant. What I am referring to as ignorant is the belief that Halloween is a holiday based on Devil worship, and that anyone who celebrates it is practicing a Satanic ritual.
This is the first I’ve heard of malicious energy being called from hell. Where I come from most kids just want the free candy. :rolleyes:
Please point out where I said that I turned her away. Do you “turn away” your friends when you have a disagreement?
SavedByJesus, I see that you’re new here. Please reread the forum rules. Proselytizing is to be kept in Great Debates.
SBJ, I plan on being in costume tonight, and I challenge you to back up your claim that I am going to “roam the streets with violence in their hearts, damaging and injuring throughout the night.”
I went as The Riddler a few years ago and a friend dressed up as Underdog. Underdog’s not dead is he?! Say it ain’t so! Not Underdog!
What the -
Violence in their hearts? Damaging and injuring throughout the night? You can’t blame Halloween for that, since the vast majority of Halloween celebrators are just in it for free candy. The people who do that sort of thing would do it anyway, if not on Halloween, they’d just find themselves another excuse.
BTW - how do you know what’s in other people’s hearts?
