Where I live, some of the stores were putting up Halloween candy and costume displays in August.
Well, last Easter I remember stories warning about the use of hard-boiled eggs in Easter egg hunts because of the danger of salmonella. As for New Year’s, there always seem to warnings about the excessive consumption of alcohol at New Year’s Eve parties and drunk driving (which is why the highway patrol is always out in full force on that evening). I guess that should cover both holidays.
Please tell me, just HOW the words “Pascha” comes from “Eoster”? Please do tell. I challenge you to do so. If you do not, I will take it as complete and total public admission that you prefer wallowing in stupidity and ignorance to actual education. The Greeks, Russians, Italians, Spanish, and many other Christians DO NOT USE “Easter” or any form of the word. They use some form of “Pascha”. This is the OLDEST term used for the holiday. Show us all how “Pascha” comes from “Eoster”. We await your knowledge? Or are you just blowing gas out your ass.
You must get warnings from particularly stupid people. Hard-boiled eggs are COOKED in what is probably most parts of the non-cartoon universe. Real health-department warnings are against raw eggs.
Here’s a quote from the book Stations of the Sun, by Ronald Hutton, Oxford University Press, 1996:
Of course, since the above is real scholarship, I expect it to be ignored by the fundie anti-Christians and fundie Christians who would rather keep spewing ignorance about “Samhain” at each other.
TOFU!!!
RUN!!!
I understand (no cite) that in Aramaic, the line about swallowing camels and straining at gnats is a pun. Apparently, there are other puns throughout the Gospels. So, we have to come to one of two conclusions: either Jesus was using cynical rhetorical tricks to pump up his sermons, or, he had a pretty decent sense of humor.
I much prefer the latter.
And on another note: I think it was Gary Shandling who noted that the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t like Holloween: “Apparently they don’t like it when total strangers come up to their houses, ring their doorbells and bother them”.
I must confess that I don’t understand all of the hubbub. When I was a kid, once a year I got to dress up and go get candy from friends, neighbors and semi-strangers and eat it all until I was sick. Where’s the religion in that?
Whether something that came about in the middle ages meant something to the people at the time that is different than now is a moot point to me. I just don’t understand why what the intent of people in the middle ages (which intent we are not even sure of) should effect the meaning or purposes for which I choose to celebrate a holiday.
IIRC, the whole jack-o-lantern came about because people believed that they warded off evil spirits. Does anyone really buy into that today? Any demonic force that will turn tail and run because it sees a hollowed out pumpkin with a candle in it is not a threat I take too seriously. Let’s face it, a lot of the things they believed in the middle ages are pretty whacky when judged by today’s standards.
I am a Christian. I don’t attach any religious significance to Halloween, and I don’t celebrate it as a religious holiday. I recognize that some might do so, and that is their right. But their beliefs do not have to dictate the meaning that I take from the holiday. I may be conservative, but I am not so mindless that I will let the Falwells and Robertson’s of the world tell me what a holiday is supposed to mean to me. If Halloween means something offensive to them, then they are right not to celebrate it, but when they tell me what it should mean to me, they are off base.
Dress up. Act goofy. Get candy. Life is short. Take the times meant for enjoyment and milk them for all their worth. In the end, such times are far too few. Why waste them?
Flanders? Is that you? Leave it to the Christians to suck the fun right out of life.
Wow.
I KNEW this topic would be around again…it’s THAT time of year.
I am a Witch. Have been all my life. Spiritually, I am Wiccan, with the naggings of hereditary Stregheria. Have been, for nigh 300 Moons. I am (happily) 100% out of the “broom” closet. I am not a Pagan Apologetic, I am not a victim of the “Burning Times”, and I have not suffered any persecution, prosecution, or even slight irritation for my beliefs.
Most of the Neo-Pagans you know, you probably DON’T know. Most of us, who have grown out of the “Wicca-is-fluffy-bunnies-and-white-light” stage are decent, moral, and above all…NORMAL citizens. We tend to be environmentally aware, (it IS an “Earth-centric” religious path), and TOLERANT of other’s beliefs. Many of us are more religiously educated than many others who would see our souls either saved or damned.
BTW…As a professional DJ, my (obvious) pentacle hasn’t slowed down anyone from hiring me to handle ANYTHING, from Christenings to Bar Mitzvahs and the like.
If I had to cite something that BOWLS me, it’s Fundies (on ANY path…) who would razz me, but be a MASON!
To fight the widespread, debilitating condition known as ignorance, I bid you click on:
http://www.religioustolerance.org
or
Merry Part!
My experience with kids who grow up in the kinds of churches that would have a substitute Halloween (including kids in the church where I grew up, though this is something which came to the fore after I moved away) is that they spend a lot of time with their church friends, and would consider such an event to be a fine evening of fun because their friends are there. Friends and candy, that’s fine by them. Learning Bible lessons in between the games or hearing a kids’ sermon? Nothing unusual to these tots, and the unusual parts – the games and fun and candy – more than make up for it. Whatever their parents believe about the origins of Halloween or why they cannot be out doing what their school or neighborhood friends are doing is rather subsumed by the sacred kiddie trinity - friends, fun and yummy things to eat.
It seems to me that the movement to “avoid” Halloween or substitute it in some way is part of an overall ideal within certain Christian circles to put the focus on God in every observance, even if that means redirecting the observance as a whole, like Halloween. The same churches that are doing things like this are pushing for an emphasis of the religious underpinnings of Easter (Resurrection Sunday, in certain places) and Christmas with a concurrent de-emphasis of the candy and toys and decorations and other trappings.
They’re also holding special prayer meetings for Thanksgiving and New Year’s Eve, and there’s no lack of rhetorical commingling of God and patriotism on Independence Day. Valentine’s Day brings a special banquet for the married folks in the fellowship hall while the kids get popcorn and movies in the gym under the supervision of the young unmarrieds. Memorial Day brings special recognition of all of the veterans in the congregation, special prayers for them and those currently in the services. There are special programs for Mothers’ and Fathers’ Days, and Labor Day is the day for the annual church picnic.
The secular calendar of holidays becomes a church calendar of reasons to gather as a Christian body and engage in prayer, praise, teaching, preaching, and other typical Christian endeavors, just centered around the holiday’s theme. Those things which can be co-opted (for lack of a better word) for Christ are brought in line, those things which cannot be made to fit the mold are reconceptualized in a manner which makes them fit.
Make of it what you will, but I wouldn’t advise that anyone think for even a moment that this kind of “Christianity as the baseline for an entire lifestyle” begins or ends with Halloween. But then, in theory, it shouldn’t, though the theory and the actual practice are sometimes at odds with one another in their form.
Two more WORTHY links, a bit more appropo of the topic…
http://www.fabrisia.com/dispelmyth.htm
http://www.witchvox.com/holidays/samhain/1031_samhain_history.html
Merry Part,
Lou The Heathen DJ
Thanks for the quote, Dogface. Clearly the Samhain connection is ruled out. But that still leaves open the question of why the Saints festival was moved to November 1 in northern Europe. Does Hutton give any clues?
Perhaps upon arriving upon this issue one should consider that not everyone is Christian and those that are often share a different view of theology in actuality. As an example I present myself. This is meant to offend no one and reflects only my view on my situation and is not a generalization of any sort. I am personally not on “good terms” with God as I feel that he is against me, perhaps because of my own fault, but I cannot drop the Christian religion because of this, for I still believe in the Christian God and the values that go with it. I believe in humans using energy attributed to a heavenly power but they must obtain this through their own union with God. Pagan religions are derived form this I believe. Could there be other creatures on Earth that are on another spiritual level? If you do not believe that, I cannot stifle my laughjter at your small-minded fear. Halloween is just a celebration of these ceatures existences that are normally persecuted. It can be both Christian and Pagan on an acceptable level for each. If still you refuse to believe, what if it was unholy? Wouldn’t those who celebrate it deserve their celebratrion as you deserve your Christmas? Keep an open mind.
-Dante Sorrow
Fear of what? The likelihood of invisible beings affecting our destiny who can be placated with prayers and offerings is vanshingly small. If you wish to believe in gods or demons, do so, but barring any evidence for their existence, you cannot expect anyone else to share your belief.
I didn’t say Pascha came from Eoster, I said Easter came frome Oester and it did. Regardless of what it’s called in other languages, it’s called Easter in English and the English word Easter comes from Eoster. The spring celebration was relatively close to the Jewish Passover and the two holidays were combined into Easter.
I’m not trying to sat that Passover (or “Pascha”) came from a Pagan holiday, I’m saying that early Christians conflated Passover with the Spring celebration to create a what we know of as Easter.
Merry meet, again…
Margaret Murray believes that the Christian holidays were moved about to coincide with the existing festivals. Largely, because that’s when the (lower-case) pagans would be in the towns trading seed, trading harvests, celebrating the existing holidays, or whatever. It has also been postulated the the early Christian churches were established on their holy grounds because…well…it’s where they were habituated to. Indeed, many of the earliest buildings show signs that the builders themselves were still, at least to some extent, “into” the old ways. Look in the high reaches of some columns, and you’ll see Greenmen, representations of sacred herbs/plants, local deities, occult symbols, and the like.
The Easter/Eostre/Ostara issues can also be linked etymologically to estrus. (it IS a fertility religion…)
Imbolc/Imbolg/Oimelc (lit: “ewe’s milk”) is celebrated at Candlemas. It’s root is the first lambings of early spring.
As to Samhain, days to mark the dead are to be found in most cultures. All Souls’ and All Saints’ days, and el Dia de los Muertos are just some of the more notable.
There are eight Sabbats celebrated by most modern-day Wiccans, the sum of which make up the “Wheel Of The Year”
As was stated previously, the people of that period only had two seasons. Summer and Winter. Whose demarcations were pretty important in the days before 14.4 modems. Irregardless of the opinions of Mr. Chick.
Merry Part,
Lou
Uh-yup, yeah, heh. The Christians FORCED THE JEWS TO MOVE PASSOVER!!! Furthermore, the Christians FORCED THE JEWS TO INVENT PASSOVER so they could FORCE it to be MOVED to the date of a pagan “goddess” that they hadn’t even heard of yet.
I guess people prefer 19th-century trash and rubbish to real scholarship.
Only stated by the monumentally ignorant. The Hellenistic world knew four seasons. The seasons of the Levant were certainly not that of northern Europe.
It’s amazing how utterly ethnocentric and blinkered the view of these newfangled “pagans” can be…
You speak of but a single “Spring celebration”. Tell me, what was the nature of this unitary and single “Spring celebration” that covered North Africa, the Levant, Greece, Anatolia, Skythia, Rus, etc?
How can you explain that my own Church has no knowledge of this “Easter”? We have Pascha. Likewise do our Russian brothers, our Romanian brothers, and indeed, all the way east to India among the St. Thomas Christians there. All have Pascha. There is none of this “Easter”? You’re not taking some sort of ignorant, ethnocentric “Western Christianity is the only way it’s done” viewpoint, are you?
Pushing for it? What more is there to push for? There’s a Liturgy every Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday throughout Lent. There are services every single day during Holy Week. There is the Liturgy of Holy Thursday, the services all day long on Great and Holy Friday, the Holy Saturday morning Liturgy, and then the great and magnificent Pascha service that begins around 9:00 pm and doesn’t end until 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning. How much more can we Orthodox do than we already have been doing for millenia?