Well, sure. Otherwise why would you have all these different organized systems. But yes, this is a longstanding argument and continues to be carried on in the religious-things internet: is it non-Christians (or non-traditional Chrisitians) worshipping the wrong god, or worshiping God wrong.
A large part of modern Catholicism trends along the line of “there is only one God and only one possible God anyway, so everyone is worshipping the same God, even if they don’t realize it (so shouldn’t you join us and get it right?).” More conservative factions tend to be more stringent about how if you’re getting anything wrong it’s as if you’re getting it ALL wrong.
As was mentioned above, the average Man-In-The-Street often has only a vague idea of what is the theology of their putative branch of whatever religion. As I like to say it, they vaguely remember scattered pieces of something they heard in Sunday/Hebrew School 30 years ago or that Grandma used to say or that they got from a book or TV movie and never bother asking their priest/pastor/rabbi/whatever whether that is really how it’s supposed to go. Any real Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox theology student would throw a fit over the folks in @raspberry_hunter ‘s example.
You say that as if that’s difficult. “Only a member of a historical Christian sect may hold office in the state of Idaho. For purposes of this statute, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and its derivative and offshoot sects is not considered a “historical Christian” sect.”
They’ll just use the definition used by Trail Life USA. And pretend they’re not playing God. Then, as that blows up in their faces, they’ll tweak it further or let their stacked judges make it more restrictive. Also: they have no problem now saying this on the record.
I’m not going to comment on the Christian experience but my experience with Judaism is that rabbis definitely encourage questioning and are quite clear that not only we don’t have an entirely clear understanding of the holy text but that we can’t understand everything because as limited mortals we are incapable of fully understanding God. Other texts are centuries and layers of commentary on laws given in the Torah, differences in customs between different Jewish groups which can be different ways of attempting to fulfill those laws, and so on. Judaism does have some fundamentalist sects with very restrictive rules, but I’ve yet to encounter any groups as rabid about their interpretations as fundamentalist Christians. I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that I’ve only had experience with Christians at that level. Even the most fundamentalist Jews I’ve encountered have conceded that there are difficult Biblical passages and not everything is clear.
Well, it’s true that rabbis encourage questioning, but not everyone is interested in engaging with that discussion. You can lead a Jew to Torah, but you can’t make him think.
This may have been true. May even still be true, for NOW. I have strong doubts that it’ll continue to be true the way things have been going. I am a secular Jew, and growing up in the 80s, there were plenty of Christians that gave me grudging acceptance, but fully considered me “other” and “lesser”. I know good Christians now that are convinced that I’m a good (enough) person, but I’m still going to end up outside the gates of Hell with the rest of the virtuous pagans. And I even know people who consider ALL non-Protestant Christians to be doomed to hell (however they choose to designate the proper sects, but Catholics and Mormons were explicitly out) but that Jews are OK because the bible says they’re the chosen people.
There’s a huge range among the countless Christian beliefs.
BUT
We’ve seen that Religious Right (as distinct from all Christians of whatever definition) is extreme in adhering to definitions, and that far too many MAGA members of said RR, when confronted with the contradictions between a gentle, kind and generous Christian creed and political hardline Christian Nationalism choose the Hardline Christian Nationalism than their faith. The oft-referenced “Christ was Woke” and “Well, that was then, but this is now, Oh I’m so persecuted” political grievance mongering.
Back to the spawning thread of Leopards and face eating, countless Christians keep voting for the entirely UnChristian MAGA movement, because it gives them power. And they will continue to choose MAGA ahead of Democrats because somehow, always, the Democrats are characterized as “wrong/unChristian” and somehow always justify voting for a fiend in flesh.
These people are very likely to keep turning further right, and into further Christian Nationalism, because to question is to be outed by their group. Riiiiiight up to the moment where their faces get eaten.
True. But it’s a fundamental (pardon) difference between the two sorts that one forbids questioning the holy text and the other has a category of people who make a career out of questioning, serve as religious leaders, and encourage the people in their congregations to ask questions.
Exactly. If the Mormons think they ought to be okay because hey, they are Christians, then i hope the leopards do eat their faces. There are lots of us non-Christians out here, people who are unambiguously not Christian, people who currently have legal rights and hopefully will continue to do so.
Also, even if it was true, what does it matter? A minority that controls laws that lets them persecute or drive out everyone they don’t consider a “true Christian” can use it to make themselves a majority. And to give them the power of a majority even if they don’t bother doing so.
Quick Aside: I appreciate the splitting off of this discussion into a new thread. But I’m a bit concerned someone might think I consider the LDS to not be Christians given the title. Being LDS myself, I most definitely consider my outfit to be Christian.
Please be so kind to continute the wonderful discussion we’ve been having in this thread thus far!