The fishes on cars, the “In God We Trust” + stars and stripes license plates here in Indiana. Businesses that display a fish on their business cards or signage.
When I see these things, do I think piety? Love of neighbor?
I do not. When I see the above-mentioned plate, I see a Bush supporter. I see someone proclaiming his/her side in the Culture War: “I’m, you know, one of us–not one of those atheist homosexual fornicating toking Liberals.”
When I hear Evangelicals and their fellow travelers in the media talk about Iraq, I do not see people who believe that Christ has the power to transform Muslim hearts or bring peace to that region. Rather, they perceive the Muslims as belonging irrevocably to another side–an enemy who must be controlled or destroyed. Christianity is nothing more than a team jersey.
Likewise in our own country, they won’t be touched by Jesus anytime soon. Instead, they’re to be complained about. Endlessly.
That’s just human nature; it feels good to have an enemy. It feels good to be part of a team. But Christianity, or so I thought, was about transcending our base nature to become something better. With fairly rare exceptions, I don’t see Christianity playing that role in my country today. I don’t even see a cognizance of that role. I see something harsh and ugly.
I see “In God We Trust” backed by red, white, and blue.
But just because you see things a certain way doesn’t mean it’s the truth.
I know a number of people who have fish license plates/car magnets and whatnot, who would happily describe themselves as Fightin’ Fundies–and who are perfectly appalled by the Neocons and the war in Iraq.
Just because your perception is that everybody with Jesus license plates is a Bushie doesn’t make it fact.
If you don’t see Christianity being “about” transcending our base nature, then maybe that’s because you’re so busy focusing on the flag lapel pins that you haven’t been looking very hard. Forest for the trees, or something like that.
Whe I think religion, I think insanity. Christians or otherwise. I know it’s not true, I have many friends who seem devoutly religeous and I know they are very fine people. I just can’t get my head around how they can believe in a God and NOT be crazy.
They can’t; to the extent people are religious, they are insane.
Christianity has never been anything better than an “Us vrs Them” belief system. It’s always been about “I’m going to Heaven, you’re going to Hell, and I’m gonna love watching you roast while I laugh !”. Along with a hefty dose of self hatred.
No, although I am an atheist, I can’t buy that in its entirety. I know it through personal experience with good people who Believe. I don’t understand it, but some time back I learned there are lots of true things that I don’t understand.
For a lot of these folks, if they looked at their beliefs and couched them in humanist terms, they would probably call themselves socialists.
The REAL crazy Christians are more like unadulterated free market capitalistss, except for wanting protectionist laws for God (THEIR god).
Excellent post Aeschines. I have never been able to articulate this idea as well.
And, Der Trihs, that is definitely all I see in mainstream Christianity now. I was raised with a kind of hippie version of Christianity, though, that even today (as an atheist) I find infinitely more palatable than this current trend.
I was just thinking about this today. It’s beyond me how so many people can believe in the same specific thing as if they know, without a doubt that it is the truth. Many of them don’t ever stop to question it. I find it truly frightening.
And it’s even more baffling when it’s someone I like and respect. I just want to ask them how they can be so sure. And every time there is a horrible tragedy you have people talking about how their faith gets them through…their home has burned down and they’ve lost children, yet they are thanking god. I don’t understand it and I probably never will.
I hope not every fish-flashing Xian is a sperm-for-brains fundie lemming, or else several people I know and respect have been playing me for a fool all this time by fronting as intelligent, reasonable human beings.
Well, I personally am sad and frustrated because I feel it’s changed in the last thirty years. I grew up Catholic, certainly had all manner of shit pumped into my head but also feel that I tapped into some genuinely altruistic and transcendent vibes along the way.
I don’t see that much at work in Christians today. There are in fact exceptions, but I see mainline Christianity in the US right now as a mean, angry, self-righteous, and highly politicized force. It’s scary.
I’d venture a guess that outside of big cities, being an atheist nowadays would lead you to suffer more discrimination and societal shunning than being any racial minority. For me at least, I know I’m much more comfortable being a visible yellow American out in Nowheresville, USA than I ever would be as a visible non-believer. That annoys me.
Polycarp, I find the op and most of this thread to be over the top to me, but I wonder, do you realize how insulting your post is to an atheist like Der Trihs? In posting it, you are acting no better than one of the most rabid atheists on the board. Did you mean to?
Heh, when did atheists become such pansies? Oh no! Telling someone that Jesus loves them is awful! Other than that, who cares if he’s offended by a critique on his posts, this is the pit.
I am not saying Der Trihs is that much of a pansy, he might be, I don’t know.
When I look at statistics on actual church membership, a minority of Christians belong to fundamentalist denominations. The problem is that they are a large minority that is vocal and belligerent. They are often the ones on the television shows saying unkind and unloving things.
Not all fundamentalists are this way, but generally members are not taught to remain silent as a way of showing respect.
“Stand up, stand up for Jesus, ye soldiers of the cross! Lift high his royal banner; it must not suffer loss…” – author unknown (from a hymnal)
A majority of Christians in the United States are not fundamentalists.
I’ve purposely avoided any cursing or cute language. My OP is dead serious. Christianity in this country (as a very strong trend, there are exceptions) is little better than that which existed in fascist Europe in the 1930s (please don’t Godwin me. I’m talking not just about Germany but also Italy and especially fascist Spain in which the Catholic Church was explicitly aligned with Franco’s government).
The fundamentalists, among others, are as a whole quite in favor of Bush and other theocratic players in government. They are making the culture war something very much dangerous to the Republic.
How is it insulting to tongue-in-cheekly suggest that a God he doesn’t believe in practices a notion that he believes is ridiculous (God-love not all love, I assume).
