[QUOTE=Aeschines]
The fundamentalists, among others, are as a whole quite in favor of Bush and other theocratic players in government. They are making the culture war something very much dangerous to the Republic.
[/QUOTE]
So this was about Bush all along? Crap.
[QUOTE=Aeschines]
I’ve purposely avoided any cursing or cute language. My OP is dead serious. Christianity in this country (as a very strong trend, there are exceptions) is little better than that which existed in fascist Europe in the 1930s (please don’t Godwin me. I’m talking not just about Germany but also Italy and especially fascist Spain in which the Catholic Church was explicitly aligned with Franco’s government).
The fundamentalists, among others, are as a whole quite in favor of Bush and other theocratic players in government. They are making the culture war something very much dangerous to the Republic.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t perceive things the same way you do. I see too many liberal Christian and non-orthodox Jews to agree with your Op. By over the top, I did not mean joking, but over-stated the case.
[QUOTE=Autolycus]
How is it insulting to tongue-in-cheekly suggest that a God he doesn’t believe in practices a notion that he believes is ridiculous (God-love not all love, I assume).
[/QUOTE]
It comes off dripping with sarcasm and arrogance.
Jim, DT, and anyone else who was offended: I meant it quite tongue-in-cheek, as a bit of “playing the stereotype Christian role” – in an effort to neither sabotage Aeschines’s OP, about which more in a minute, nor to “be the outraged Christian taking offense” that would be equally obnoxious.
Some days you just can’t win! 
In all seriousness, while there are a lot more sincere Christians for whom it’s not a Culture War thing than I think most average non-religious people recognize, Aeschines has hit on something quite real, and annoying: those to whom Christianity, anti-Arab sentiment, support for Bush, public display of religious and/or patriotic symbols, etc., are all means of expressing a particular ideology. (IMO, that attitude is blasphemous, but that’s a quite separate rant.)
The thread title is wrong. Christianity is something more than that. But with a very slight modification: “Most of the public display of Christianity in the U.S…,” Aeschines is, unfortunately, very much on target.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
I don’t perceive things the same way you do. I see too many liberal Christian and non-orthodox Jews to agree with your Op. By over the top, I did not mean joking, but over-stated the case.
It comes off dripping with sarcasm and arrogance.
[/QUOTE]
Ah, I see your point. It would in many cases, but from knowing Polycarp from the boards it seems more like gentle ribbing, to me anyway.
[QUOTE=Autolycus]
How is it insulting to tongue-in-cheekly suggest that a God he doesn’t believe in practices a notion that he believes is ridiculous (God-love not all love, I assume).
[/QUOTE]
Less insulting, more condescending? “What you believe is wrong - but don’t worry your pretty little head, God loves you anyway”. I don’t think Polycarp meant it that way, of course.
Edit: Ah, I thought so. Polycarp’s too good a sort to be mean (even to Der Trihs 
).
[QUOTE=mswas]
Heh, when did atheists become such pansies? Oh no! Telling someone that Jesus loves them is awful! Other than that, who cares if he’s offended by a critique on his posts, this is the pit.
I am not saying Der Trihs is that much of a pansy, he might be, I don’t know.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you for an example of what Aeschines is talking about-what passes for Christian “love” in parts of our society today.
Repubs bought the church and can make it what they want it to be. Independent church is long gone.
[QUOTE=Polycarp]
Jim, DT, and anyone else who was offended: I meant it quite tongue-in-cheek, as a bit of “playing the stereotype Christian role” – in an effort to neither sabotage Aeschines’s OP, about which more in a minute, nor to “be the outraged Christian taking offense” that would be equally obnoxious.
…
The thread title is wrong. Christianity is something more than that. But with a very slight modification: “Most of the public display of Christianity in the U.S…,” Aeschines is, unfortunately, very much on target.
[/QUOTE]
I am glad you did not mean it the way it looked, I was surprised.
I completely agree with your modification. The public display of Christianity is very scary to me. It is the actions of the quieter members that reassure me we are not headed towards “Coventry”.
Jim
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Thank you for an example of what Aeschines is talking about-what passes for Christian “love” in parts of our society today.
[/QUOTE]
I am not a Christian. I just think it’s funny how I made a post asking for people their opinions about some books that have come out recently and people jumped on my like I sacrificed their puppies to my deity of choice.
One negative side-effect of the mainstreamization of atheism is that now that there isn’t any real oppression anymore, atheists have become as weak and facile as most Christians. “Help I’m being oppressed!” Used to have to be hardcore to be an atheist, because if you were, you faced being burned at the stake after spending a few months on the rack. Now you just get to go online and jump to conclusions any time you perceive a slight to your chosen belief system.
Of course, I feel the need to explain the concept of the generalization for people by noting that I recognize that atheists come in all shapes and sizes and that they are not all pansies, some are genuinely hardcore, and that the proliferation of the pansies on this message board are not evidence of the behavior of all or even most atheists, just a subsection that has recently been vocal to me. On that same note, and to the same degree, I agree with the OP of this thread.
[QUOTE=Duck Duck Goose]
snip
If you don’t see Christianity being “about” transcending our base nature, then maybe that’s because you’re so busy focusing on the flag lapel pins that you haven’t been looking very hard. Forest for the trees, or something like that.
[/QUOTE]
As an atheist, I don’t see christianity being “about” anything, much less trying to transcend my “base” nature.
It is not up to “christians” to judge my nature at all.
It used to be that the “Christians suck/poor put upon atheists” circle-jerks had to be prompted by some link-worthy bit of idiocy. Dispensing with that will surely increase the frequency of these mutual wank-offs, and if you can maintain such a high degree of transparency and pointlessness in your bashing, no Christian with half a brain will bother to attempt to interrupt you. Enjoy!
[QUOTE=Jodi]
It used to be that the “Christians suck/poor put upon atheists” circle-jerks had to be prompted by some link-worthy bit of idiocy. Dispensing with that will surely increase the frequency of these mutual wank-offs, and if you can maintain such a high degree of transparency and pointlessness in your bashing, no Christian with half a brain will bother to attempt to interrupt you. Enjoy!
[/QUOTE]
I’ll oblige you. Here ya go.
From the site Christianbumpersitcker.com: “Why be silent when you can witness to hundreds of people with Christian bumper stickers?”
[QUOTE=mswas]
I am not a Christian. I just think it’s funny how I made a post asking for people their opinions about some books that have come out recently and people jumped on my like I sacrificed their puppies to my deity of choice.
[/QUOTE]
You made an erroneous assertion in your OP, have been wholly unable to support it, have been called on it multiple times, and now have to come to another thread to whine about everyone picking on you.
If you really aren’t a Christian maybe you should check it out. I think you’ll fit right in with some of the more vocal churches.
Way to miss my point. :rolleyes:
Since no actual link-worthy idiocy is apparently required, you don’t oblige me by back-forming some. And why bother, when you can apparently move directly to the intellectual diddling? Skipping the recreational outrage portion of the program can only increase the frequency of these threads, and by God there haven’t been nearly enough of them.
If there’s not a “X-tians sux0rs” thread at least once a week, God kills a kitten.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Polycarp, I find the op and most of this thread to be over the top to me, but I wonder, do you realize how insulting your post is to an atheist like Der Trihs? In posting it, you are acting no better than one of the most rabid atheists on the board. Did you mean to?
[/QUOTE]
Why should he care? He thinks all religious people are insane and would like to see every American soldier overseas (or at least in Iraq) murdered. If he’s willing to stand up for those beliefs time and time again on a public message board, he’s thick-skinned enough to handle a little religious sarcasm.
[QUOTE=Jodi]
Way to miss my point. :rolleyes:
Since no actual link-worthy idiocy is apparently required, you don’t oblige me by back-forming some. And why bother, when you can apparently move directly to the intellectual diddling? Skipping the recreational outrage portion of the program can only increase the frequency of these threads, and by God there haven’t been nearly enough of them.
If there’s not a “X-tians sux0rs” thread at least once a week, God kills a kitten.
[/QUOTE]
“recreational outrage”? Ooohh, trendy.
That site offeres several stickers for the persecuted Christian- so I thought it would be relevant to the discussion. Forgive me.
Thing is, Jodi, none of it really matters.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
They can’t; to the extent people are religious, they are insane.
[/QUOTE]
To the extent that people are nutso themselves, they think others are insane.
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Thank you for an example of what Aeschines is talking about-what passes for Christian “love” in parts of our society today.
[/QUOTE]
Idiot.
^another example.
mswas hasn’t been around for ages but I’m astonished you didn’t remember he’s not a Christian.
[QUOTE=Zoe]
When I look at statistics on actual church membership, a minority of Christians belong to fundamentalist denominations. The problem is that they are a large minority that is vocal and belligerent. They are often the ones on the television shows saying unkind and unloving things.
Not all fundamentalists are this way, but generally members are not taught to remain silent as a way of showing respect.
A majority of Christians in the United States are not fundamentalists.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, let’s try this again…
A majority of Christians in the United States are not fundamentalists!
FTR, Fundies are not “mainline” Christianity. Usually the term “Mainline churches” refers to Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, and similar, which are some of the most accepting and liberal denominations you’ll find. These are the people who provide relief to homeless people, maintain food-pantries for people who can’t afford groceries and send workers and supplies to sites of hurricanes, all without “witnessing,” but just out of a desire to help. You never hear about them because they don’t want you to. It’s not about them; it’s about doing what they believe God wants them to do.
I’ve always loved the quote attributed to St. Francis: “Preach the Gospel. Use words if necessary.”
The people who stick big ol’ bumper-stickers on their cars and beat people about the head and shoulders with Bibles are doing it for themselves, not for God.
All I want in this threads is for people to understand that not all Christians are grandstanding jerks. In fact, very few are. They just hog the spotlight (because that’s what they want) and bring the hate onto the rest of us who are just trying to live out what we believe.
Thank you for your attention.
Nancy