mswas hasn’t been around for ages but I’m astonished you didn’t remember he’s not a Christian.
[/QUOTE]
Didn’t forget at all. Just pointing out that mswas’s post was a perfect example of the type of response given by some “Christians” when this topic pops up.
This paragraph would be at home on most conservative Christian message boards. Claims that there isn’t any real oppression of atheists anymore, and that it isn’t real oppression unless we are being burned at the stake or spend a few months on the rack. Hell, I guess nobody is being oppressed anymore using those standards. On the one hand we are getting too strident by daring to put out books defending our point of view, and on the other we are “weak and facile”.
There are genuine, sincere Christians around, but certainly the people who have made themselves the public face of Christianity in the U.S. these days are engaged in nothing more than a modern form of tribalism.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
To the extent that people are nutso themselves, they think others are insane.
[/QUOTE]
This is, of course, not remotely close to being true.
A majority of Christians in the United States are not fundamentalists!
FTR, Fundies are not “mainline” Christianity. Usually the term “Mainline churches” refers to Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, and similar, which are some of the most accepting and liberal denominations you’ll find. These are the people who provide relief to homeless people, maintain food-pantries for people who can’t afford groceries and send workers and supplies to sites of hurricanes, all without “witnessing,” but just out of a desire to help. You never hear about them because they don’t want you to. It’s not about them; it’s about doing what they believe God wants them to do.
I’ve always loved the quote attributed to St. Francis: “Preach the Gospel. Use words if necessary.”
The people who stick big ol’ bumper-stickers on their cars and beat people about the head and shoulders with Bibles are doing it for themselves, not for God.
All I want in this threads is for people to understand that not all Christians are grandstanding jerks. In fact, very few are. They just hog the spotlight (because that’s what they want) and bring the hate onto the rest of us who are just trying to live out what we believe.
Thank you for your attention.
Nancy
[/QUOTE]
While I fully realize that fundamentalist Christians are not in the majority, I also realize that they are the ones influencing the conservatives in Congress, this current Administration, and the opinions of the rest of the world through their almost total control of religious media. If they “hog the spotlight” and ruin the name of Christianity, it’s only because mainstream Christianity lets them. If someone stole my identity, ran up a shitload of bills and proceeded to ruin my good name, I wouldn’t sit on my ass and whine about how it wasn’t me doing all that crap-I’d be out there doing my best to grab that spotlight and clear my good name. You want to be treated like the majority?
Act like the majority.
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Polycarp, I find the op and most of this thread to be over the top to me, but I wonder, do you realize how insulting your post is to an atheist like Der Trihs? In posting it, you are acting no better than one of the most rabid atheists on the board. Did you mean to?
Jim
[/QUOTE]
It was perfectly okay to say that sort of thing to badchad, in fact it became a bit of a running joke in his last days here. Why is it not okay to say it to Der Trihs?
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Didn’t forget at all. Just pointing out that mswas’s post was a perfect example of the type of response given by some “Christians” when this topic pops up.
[/QUOTE]
Uh-huh. So something a non-Christian says suggesting an atheist grow a skin exemplifies that which is said by scare-quote Christians end-scare-quote. Gotcha. But can’t you find enough examples by, y’know, actual Christians?
Kalhoun, think for a moment, will you? On a day when people are asked to “give thanks, each according to his or her own faith,” why wouldn’t Christians use that opportunity to give thanks to, say, Christ?
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar]
It was perfectly okay to say that sort of thing to badchad, in fact it became a bit of a running joke in his last days here. Why is it not okay to say it to Der Trihs?
[/QUOTE]
Was it perfectly ok? Could be, I missed that memo.
My point was the I believe **Polycarp ** is usually above such pettiness, and apparently he was and his joke just misfired with some of us, especially me.
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Kalhoun, think for a moment, will you? On a day when people are asked to “give thanks, each according to his or her own faith,” why wouldn’t Christians use that opportunity to give thanks to, say, Christ?
After all, isn’t that their own faith?
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I thought about it, alright:
It’s being promoted by the president and the governor of my state. That’s not their job. Their job is to be outwardly neutral about religion. If they want to partake, that’s their business.
The National Day of Prayer is not for each, according to his or her own faith. It’s decidedly christian.
and
Sorry…belief is fine, whatever gets you through the night. Endorsement of this kind of crap by the president and the governor is exclusive and offensive. Why, *oh why * must christians drag out the bandwagon and associate their superhero with our secular government (and indirectly, with patriotism)? Sometimes it’s a personal relationship with god (fine, as far as secular members of society are concerned) and other times, they feel the overwhelming need to thumbtack a tattered version of the stars and stripes to their cross so they look *extra * patriotic. Have they no shame? Can you see how that puts the rest of us on the outside looking in?
[QUOTE=Autolycus]
I see “Christianity is Evil” backed by white and black. I see a place where religion bashing is cool and accepted. I see… The Pit!
As per the bumper stickers thing though, I agree. At best it’s tacky and preachy, at worst it’s fundamendalist and scary.
[/QUOTE]
There was a letter to the editor today (in an Indiana paper) that suggested the motto should be replaced by the one the owner of the plate actually believes:
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Uh-huh. So something a non-Christian says suggesting an atheist grow a skin exemplifies that which is said by scare-quote Christians end-scare-quote. Gotcha. But can’t you find enough examples by, y’know, actual Christians?
[/QUOTE]
Are you asking that I start a thread containing all the examples I can find of Christians giving those kinds of quotes? I can just see all the drive-bys accusing me of “Christian-bashing” that would result, thank you very much. I was upset at mswas specifically for doing their job for them, though he constantly professes not to be one of them.
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Are you asking that I start a thread containing all the examples I can find of Christians giving those kinds of quotes? I can just see all the drive-bys accusing me of “Christian-bashing” that would result, thank you very much. I was upset at mswas specifically for doing their job for them, though he constantly professes not to be one of them.
[/QUOTE]
No, I’m asking that you not cite a grow-a-skin comment by a non-“Christian” as an instance of the kind of love Christians demonstrate.
Perhaps mswas, with whom I find myself in agreement roughly once every other Pancake Tuesday when there’s a penguin in my garden, was not so much doing anyone’s job as calling things the way he saw them.
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Not much inclusion of other religions on that site, is there? :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
Well, no, there isn’t. But you will notice that it is a .org website and not a .gov one, and that Shirley Dobson, the task force head, is the wife of Focus on the Family head muckety-muck James Dobson.
This may be the “official” site for Christians of some stripe or other, but it has no affiliation to the government that I can see, except that they choose to coordinate certain of their own events with the date of a presidential proclamation.
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto]
Well, no, there isn’t. But you will notice that it is a .org website and not a .gov one, and that Shirley Dobson, the task force head, is the wife of Focus on the Family head muckety-muck James Dobson.
This may be the “official” site for Christians of some stripe or other, but it has no affiliation to the government that I can see, except that they choose to coordinate certain of their own events with the date of a presidential proclamation.
[/QUOTE]
Then I’m sure you can come up with another National Day Of Prayer website that better shows the inclusion and tolerance of all kinds of religion.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
They can’t; to the extent people are religious, they are insane.
Christianity has never been anything better than an “Us vrs Them” belief system. It’s always been about “I’m going to Heaven, you’re going to Hell, and I’m gonna love watching you roast while I laugh !”. Along with a hefty dose of self hatred.
[/QUOTE]
Where would Christian Universalism stand in your analysis? Not a part of Christianity? Or not sincere in its belief that all are saved?
