You are, needless to say, completely wrong about that, as even a casual perusal of the links you provided demonstrates.
Actually I’m completely right. Catholic charities have the right to offer food and medicine in accordance with their religion. The First Amendment guarantees their right to do so, and thus the ACLU is trying to take away their First Amendment rights.
By offering food and health care, Catholic charities are not violating anyone’s rights. Both the ACLU, and Little Nemo, and you say that Catholic charities are preventing someone else from exercising their rights, but none of you can offer any logical justification for that.
(We’ve already mentioned that anyone who doesn’t like the options at a Catholic health care facility is free to go to a different health care facility, thus nothing that a Catholic facility offers restricts anyone else’s choices.)
Except that there are numerous examples where Jesus helped/healed people who were not Jewish/Christian.
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Actually I’m completely right. Catholic charities have the right to offer food and medicine in accordance with their religion. The First Amendment guarantees their right to do so, and thus the ACLU is trying to take away their First Amendment rights.
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[Quote=Robert163]
Except that there are numerous examples where Jesus helped/healed people who were not Jewish/Christian.
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Your reply to what I wrote doesn’t have any logical connection to what I wrote. Would you care to explain why you posted it?
This is the logic you should be applying to case about the Catholic charities and reproductive healthcare for immigrants. The charities voluntarily entered a contract stating that they had to provide reproductive healthcare for immigrants in exchange for funding. They were perfectly free not to sign that contract and the government wouldn’t had inflicted any punishment on them, they just wouldn’t have gotten any money.
sure
You are claiming that withholding services is part of christian dogma, ie, religious freedom. except that christ never withheld his services from anyone.
So, not only are you incapable of detecting logic, it would seem you are incapbale of detecting hypocrisy as well.
Yes
This falls under the “sucks to be you category”. You are no longer free to impose your bigotry on other people (in terms of SSM). I have no sympathy for you.
A couple of times, yes, he did.
Really? I’m not aware of that contract. Would it possible for me to see a copy of the contract that these charities signed?
There’s a federal law which says that no person or organization in the USA can be forced to perform an abortion if they object on grounds of conscience, and that federal health care money cannot be used as a lever to make any person or organization perform abortions. I’ve already linked to a copy of the law earlier in this thread. This law, commonly called the “conscience clause”, has always received near-unanimous support from members of both parties. If the federal government is trying to make any charitable group perform abortions in order to receive federal funding for health care work, that’s against the law, and presumably the courts will slap the government down.
when?
Actually, I never claimed what you say that I claimed. I never said “withholding services is part of Christian dogma”, or anything like that.
Has it ever occurred to you that anybody who’s capable of reading English can very easily read my posts and see for themselves what I’ve written? When you make a blatantly untrue statement like that, everyone who reads the thread will easily see that you’re not telling the truth. What on earth do you hope to accomplish by doing that?
Your claim that “except that christ never withheld his services from anyone” is a ridiculous argument, and not just because of your incorrect grammar, punctuation, and capitalization. The topic in this debate is not whether the Catholic charities are withholding services; they are trying to provide services to those desperately in need, and it’s the ACLU that is trying to stop them from doing so. The topic is whether Catholic charities should be forced by the government to provide abortions. Now anyone, even a third grader, could tell us that refusing to perform an abortion is not the same as generally withholding services. For you to try to conflate the two is extraordinarily dishonest.
I’m fairly certain that in the Gospels, Jesus Christ never performed an abortion. Therefore, for you to imply that the actions of Jesus Christ require that any group perform abortions is obviously an absurd on idiotic argument.
Again, your reply to what I wrote doesn’t have any logical connection to what I wrote. Would you care to explain why you posted it?
(I am however, amused that after explaining the difference between an employer and government, I asked “Is this really that difficult to understand?” You answered, “Yes”. Most people who are incapable of understanding a topic that’s easily grasped by small children wouldn’t admit it as readily as you did.)
Well, of course not. I most humbly apologize for insulting your fine reputation.
Try reading the link you posted?
Don’t be disingenuous.
Point me to the exact passage that says that, I can’t find it. Seems to me that the law says that if you receive a grant under the Public Health Service program, you can’t be made to make abortions. Not that you are entitled to get a grant even if you refuse to perform abortions.
But, at any rate, that law favors Christians, and you approve of it. It appears to me that when the law favor Christians, this is the law of the land, and merely bringing a suit against Christians is an attack on Christian values. But when the law doesn’t favor Christians, such as the law prohibiting soup kitchens on public property, that is also an attack on Christian values.
Among other places, John 5:5 ff, where a “great multitude” asked for healing, and Jesus healed only one of them.
Also when Judas would have given alms to the poor, but Jesus demanded the money be spent for luxuries for himself, instead.
Not that this is really relevant to the thread; an incorrect claim was made, and needed refuting.
Well, I allways had the impression that in the first situation, he was too overwhelmed too help that many people, not that he didn’t - want - to help.
The second category, that is not exactly refusing to help. well, kind of, sort of, but it’s not like, I won’t help you because you are not “category ABC” it’s more like… I’m going to spend this money on myself.
Neither situation, in my estimation, is grounds for a christian to refuse service to someone just because they disagree with that person’s lifestyle choices, even for religious topics.
So there are limits to God’s power? Why? Why couldn’t he have waved his arms and cured everyone there. He could multiply loaves and fishes: why not healing?
It’s the traditional problem with the omnis: you can’t have all three of omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence. At least one of them has to be given up.
And…this is a pointless highjack that doesn’t advance the thread. Let’s let it drop.
IDK, good point, I agree with your criticism. I guess my answer would be that “god” does not actually exist and it was either ignorance or bias on the part of the person who made up these stories as to why some things “don’t make sense”.
Christian values are under attack… that is the thread. My claim is that Christians are hypocrites. I do not think that is a “tangent”. Christ served/helped people. Christ would of been a democrat. Feed the hungry, clothe the poor, etc. You can’t have a discussion as to whether Christian values are under attack if you’re not willing to talk about whether Christians actually live out their own values. Well, you can. But it would be a one sided, short sighted conversation.
Jesus did heal. So did Peter. The blind, paralytic, demonically possessed, and those with leprosy. Also, the trinity of God is his being omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient - All knowing, All powerful, and always present. Neither of which are ever absent in the Holy Spirit, but rather bound together in the power of God. All three together (inseparable) are how we define God. There are no limits to God’s power and nothing or no-one can overthrow Him. God gives us (his people) gifts to be used and never withheld from others deserving good. Both letters to the Corinthians and Romans (and Hebrews if you’re feeling studious) can help bring perspective to your questions. God grants us choice and we all reap what we sow. But ultimately he forgives those who believe Jesus died for our sins (contextually misinterpreted quite often - Jesus was not sent to die, he was sent to save. He was crucified because he was charged with blasphemy not because his physical life was ordained for this purpose. He was just brave and loving. That and 30 pence of silver satisfied Judas and his betrayal of a brother. The limit of power is of our own, not Gods. We decide entirely those limits (not willfully, but by report).
Christian school prayers can be in Christian schools not pubic school . I am Jewish and I didn’t like having to say a Christian prayer in school , the teacher made sure everyone was saying it and this was so wrong ! I think if people would not try to force their beliefs onto other people they would not feel that they’re under attack . I had a Christian friend and she kept trying to get me to
to become a Christian . I felt like I was being under attack and I got fed up with this and no longer talk to the person . Why the hell do people do this , I hate it !
I was born Jewish and I am going to die Jewish !