This is inspired by a Pit thread, and my asking this question there was handled in typical Pit fashion (which was amusing, but I’m serious about wanting to know this).
What is the theological relationship between Christians and the Ten Commandments, and in turn, to the Old Testament? The Ten Commandments are the most prominent of the Jewish laws, but they are only ten of 316. I’ve never heard of Christians showing any indication of following or being particularly interested in the other 306 commandments (which include laws on how to dress, what to eat, and how to behave on the Sabbath, and what holidays to celebrate, among other things).
It is my understanding that Christian theology says that Jesus makes all of the laws in the Tanakh moot - salvation is simply in accepting him, and there is no reason to worry about eating pork or working on the Sabbath or fasting on Yom Kippur.
Basically: is there an actual theological reason Christians should pay any attention to the Ten Commandments, or is it an entirely political statement when Christians go on about hanging them in courtrooms and classrooms?
I think the Commandments are accepted as not a) conflicting with anything Jesus said, and b) being clear and concise rules that Jesus would still endorse even if he dropped the rest.
There also seems to be some amount of belief that our legal systems are based on the influence of the Old Testament, particularly the 10 Commandments, and so that history should be respected. Though in truth, I don’t think that the OT laws nor any particular subset led to the creation of the modern legal system. They were an early set of laws, but they weren’t particularly influential until at least Christianity took off, by which time European law had already been based on things like Hammurabi’s code, Grecian principles of philosophy, and the complex systems of government that Rome developed. The Judaic system of law simply wasn’t important. And by the time it could have spread to Europe, it didn’t really contain anything that wasn’t already there.
My take is Jesus reduced it to 2, Love God, and Love your neighbor.
That’s all that is required. If you don’t know Love, which is to know God, in other words if you don’t know how to have a 2 way conversation with God, you need a written code to follow. But if you fall under any part of the written code you fall under all of it.
If you know God you are under grace, which means, though the law still exists you are above it.
You don’t personally qualify as the generic set of large branches of the Christian world, unless you are secretly a billion people all voting on a single response to answer. If you think that the best generalization of what the largest branches would agree upon (assuming such a thing exists) is what you said then that’s all well and fine, but then you wouldn’t need to preface it with “my position”.
There is no answer that covers “Christians in general.” We are a motley crew. It’s a little like asking, “What do Dopers believe in general?”
I am a Protestant. A Presbyterian. A Cumberland Presbyterian. Each specification changes things a little. and even within the Cumberland Presbyterian Church there is room for disagreement.
Somewhere in my childhood I had to memorize one or the other sets of the Ten Commandments. One of these, as best I remember, was Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.. “The Sabbath” for us is Sunday. Stores in our town were always closed, including my father’s. Mother didn’t do regular housework. The kids didn’t have to do chores. We went to Sunday School and Church. If we went to my grandmother’s house, we couldn’t play cards. Those were the rules.
There were girls in my town that had to wear long dresses all the time. And when I came to Nashville, there were women of some denominations that did not cut their hair or wear makeup. Back then, in the Sixties, most of the Roman Catholics and many Anglicans and others ate fish on Friday and the women covered their heads when they went to church services.
So different groups observed different traditions and teachings.
Too often those who insist on putting up the Ten Commandments in public school rooms seem to have lost the spirit that they may have intended to begin with.
kanicbird’s take, however, is a pretty conventional one in Christianity—indeed, probably the predominant one. The Book of Common Prayer is but one example:
Bringing it back round to the OP, Rite One (where the above comes from) allows the above to be said in place of a recitation of the Ten Commandments (or the Decalogue). The 1928 BCP required the recitation of the Decalogue at least one Sunday per month (and on Sundays where it is omitted, “Hear what our Lord Jesus Christ saith…” is required). So the prominence of the Ten Commandments isn’t really an innovation or politically motivated element of the liturgy. They’ve been in there since Cramner wrote in the sixteenth century.
Of course, all the churches I’ve been to use Rite Two, which features neither the Decalogue nor the Summary of the Law (as the two commandment version is known).
Theologically, the importance might come from a New Testament colloquy at Matthew 19:16-19. Jesus is asked what one must do to have “eternal life.” Jesus responds that one “must obey the commandments.” When asked which commandments in particular, Jesus’ reply mentioned five of the Ten Commandments and “to love others as one loves oneself” (which also comes from Leviticus, as do the Ten Commandments). So here we have the exchange that simultaneously singles out two sets of commandments (Decalogue and Summary) as well as linking them.
Figuring that there’s between 30 and 80 million Fundamentalist Christians and 68 million Catholics, it looks like at least 50% of Americans, let alone Christians, believe the 10 commandments to be foundational to the religion and general morality. Since we can assume that there are more groups than just these two which would also hold this belief, it’s safe to say that the majority view is that the 10 Commandments are fundamental to most Christians.
My experience is that they are important, but still subservient to the two commandments mentioned above.
Also, I’ve been told that the reason we even accept them is all but one was actually restated by either Jesus or Paul. The sabbath one actually seems to be contradicted by Romans 14, however…
Neither Catholics nor Fundamentalists reject the Summary of the Law, which is, as mentioned above, is from the words of Jesus (or at least attributed to Jesus in the New Testament). See Matthew 22:37-40. No sizeable Christian denomination elevates the Ten Commandments over Jesus’ explication of them. Nor did kanicbird suggest they were unimportant, only that Jesus has “fulfilled the law” and that divine love and grace are what account for salvation, not obedience to the law.
Despite there being 613 mitzvot, the Torah, itself, refers to keeping the Ten Commandments, (Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13). From this arose the practice of referring to the Ten Commandments, (or of referring to “The Commandments” with “the Ten” being understood). Commentaries or references to “the Ten Commandments” were common in Jewish literature even before Christianity got well started, (both Philo, 10 B.C.E. - 50 C.E., and Josephus, late first century, enumerated the Ten Commandments). In Christian scripture, Mark 10:19 and Luke 18:20 each refer to “the commandments,” then cite several of “the ten” as examples.
So, Christianity arose in an environment in which there were literary allusions to “Ten Commandments” and it has carried on that tradition.
Of the 613 mitzvot, a large number of them are concerned with rituals or ritual purity and Christians felt free to drop them following Paul’s efforts to recruit gentiles. Others, of course, are directed at actual moral behavior and they are honored or ignored based on the comfort or need with which various Christian societies viewed them.
Seems to me that such a notion is dangerous indeed. The biblical examples show that those who are “under grace” are still punished for violations of the laws (notably, Moses, presumably “under grace” in Christian theology.)
The danger is, of course, HOW DO YOU KNOW that you know God? The idea that someone “under grace” can do as they please because they’re doing God’s will is what led to such inhumane atrocities as the Spanish Inquisition*, Salem Witch Trials, massacre of the Huguenots, etc. etc. etc. even down to the Manson Murders (he was “doing God’s will”, IIRC). Dangerous theology indeed.
[sub]which, of course, was completely unexpected[/sub]
To clarify- they do not agree on how to divide the Ten (Catholics put No Other Gods & No Graven Images together & divide Don’t Covet Neighbor’s Spouse from Don’t Covet Their Other Stuff). Cs & Ps do agree on the substance of what’s in the Ten.
The local Catholic school has a large TC monument in front of it that I am pretty sure uses the Protty version.
Well, considering that Charlie taught he was God AND Satan! L
I can’t link right now, but in her website memoirs, Susan Atkins said that the whole Helter Skelter Bible+Beatles stuff was Charlie deliberately making up crap for his stoned-out followers and Charlie was personally more of a gangster than a self-deluded cult leader.
Thanks for responding, everyone. What I’m gathering is that my initial understanding was correct, that there is no particular theological reason Christians are obliged to follow the Ten Commandments, but they’re in the Bible and Christians like them and think they’re neat.
