Let’s accept this and recognize it how it does not relate to the specifics we are discussing. The question at hand is how does God communicate with us , what is the nature of inspiration and the writings man calls “holy” or “sacred”
I compare the Holy Spirit working in mankind to the purest water being poured through an impure filter. What comes out may be great but is affected by the filter it passes through. In the case of the NT we have a lot of falterings to consider and the evidence clearly indicates it is affected and changed by the men whose hands it passed through. Rather than clinging to a man made tradition about the scriptures we should allow the evidence to teach us about the nature and purpose of “sacred” writings.
If we have access to all truth through communion with the Holy Spirit then we don’t need any writings to be infallible or placed above all others. We study and the spirit guides and teaches.
Yes, and man’s religious tradition is not the truth. I’ve read a lot about people reading the Bible and feeling the spirit move within them to testify to it’s truth. It is the spirit and the truth that are key in that scenario. The same spirit can use other books, or other tools to teach us. The Bible is a tool for teaching and guidance. To elevate it beyond what the evidence shows it to be is, IMHO placing tradition over truth. It is elevating form over substance, the lamp over the light.
Do we? I’m no scholar but I didn’t think we had all the text in the original languages. I agree that copies are more an issue than translation although I’d note that many people still read The KJV which is widely acknowledged to be an inferior translation to other versions. We have thousands of copies of the NT and no two copies are exactly alike. We have copies of copies of copies and the evidence shows that changes were made. Your assertion about the apostles doesn’t hold up. It appears to be an unsubstantiated assumption in order to support another unsubstantiated assumption about the NT which has deep traditional roots in Christian beliefs.
Most likely? According to whom please?
Actually I do believe in spiritual revelation through the Holy Spirit. That doesn’t mean I embrace everything that claims to be one. We are imperfect people trying to understand some things that are still beyond our understanding. Still, we must seek the truth over dogma and tradition.
{work calls}
There are Unity churches, and Science of Life churches (not to be confused with Christian Science) Spiritual Churches (these are the psychics) New Age churches, New Thought Churches, most Pagan Churches, and there are main stream Christian Churches which have dropped the fear teaching. It is necessary to seek them out.
There are many mostly love teaching churches in the main stream and more are heading that way. People are turned off with the old hell and damnation preaching because they know it is not real, but they still want to know about spiritual things. There is a trend in our country toward a realistic religion of love.
I remember reading about a study done with people diagnosed with clinical depression. They were shown pictures and asked how the pictures made them feel – more depressed, the same, or less depressed. When they were shown the picture of the Dalai Lama they all said it made them feel less depressed.
The groups leading the change include the spiritists (psychics) the new agers, the near death experiencers, and the Pagans, among others including just anyone tired of that “old time religion.”
Yes, they are, just as much churches as the ones you listed. Actually I have gone to many of them and held healing sessions. They are fun people to be with, you can speak your mind without fear of stumbling over sacred doctrine.
True, but some judging needs to be done, or we’d have no justice system. Although there are some forms of belief in which believers are happy to leave that all up to the big guy.
I don’t disagree it’s a bad thing, i just didn’t think it was particularly addressed in that specific section.
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lekatt** I always believed that you had a spiritual encounter that made you take notice of the powers and principalities that enforce the man made religious rules. I think we both can see that man made religious rules and the like are not of God, it is the spiritual aspects that are important.
I have watched some of you posts, prayed over them, as on the surface they do appear to state ‘Love’, but it is pretty clear that the love you state is not complete, but designed to satisfy you. By denying the Christ you deny His total complete and perfect Love, and thereby the Love of the Father. You do say you hold to the teachings of Jesus, but you exclude most of the scriptures about Him, actually the entire Bible is about Him. The parts you like to deny are the parts that are holding you in bondage, including you rejecting the free gift of salvation and trying to achieve this love you experienced by your own works.
I don’t think Luke was being literal. He was saying that materialist things don’t really matter in life… What are you going to do with your two coats? Take them with you when you die? Good luck with that…
He’s suggesting to be charitable, and to value people over materialism.
I know people who are so deeply vitriolic and meanspirited; they plot and plan against others to destroy them. I personally don’t believe these folks have a soul, but this is what they value, destroying people.
Does it matter in the end? What does it matter if a man gains the world yet loses his soul? This type of thinking… That’s where Luke is coming from.
Bold mine. Demons know that Jesus is the Son of God, and often refer to Him as such. The difference is that a demon will never refer to Jesus as Lord, which is what we need to do for salvation. We need to make Him Lord over us, then with Him as our Lord he will conform us to His likeness.
I’d agree with this, but also for many surrendering one’s life is a process, there are areas of their life that may not be ready yet, so they may not be that Christ like in those areas in that stage in their faith.
Apologies if it’s been mentioned (I skimmed the thread but haven’t read everything), it may be worth remembering that a coat today isn’t the same as a coat then. A coat in ancient times was extremely expensive in comparison to today as each one was hand made and the result of many hours of work. Before mass production clothing was so expensive that most people of moderate means only owned a few garments. Even in Colonial America 1,700 years after Jesus clothing was mentioned in wills and estate inventories as a valuable and one reason people were buried in shrouds was so that their clothing could be recycled. A poor person often could literally not afford a coat no matter how badly they needed one.
Point: while it’s almost impossible to evaluate 1st century AD currency with ours, it’s probably fair to say that for what two coats cost then one could buy a whole wardrobe today. Today even most poor people can afford some kind of warm garments. Today it may be more akin to “if you have two serviceable cars then sell one and give the money to those who need one”.
And , if we truly examine the the New Testament, we see a lot of passages that agree with what you’re saying. What spirit we follow is revealed by our actions , not by what we give lip service to.
Ok I think this is were we differ, I see it as the purest water being poured out of a impure filter. The work of God in us is the work of God, God is perfect, God is in us & God is one, so the workings of the Holy Spirit flowing through us has that same level of perfection.
Now I admit when we try to get our flesh mixed in, trying to ‘help God’ that mucks up the water.
