You go to Heaven if you follow God and to Hell if you follow the Devil. Persevere and you go up, fall into temptation and you go down.
Personally, I don’t think we are tempted or tested, stuff just happens.
You will like being Tempted. You will hate being tested.
If God knows all things,past, present, and future, then why on earth would he need to test anyone when He knows the end results to begin with? Why would He even let a being such as Satan exist? Why He punishes a innocent human with death if he is weak and would give in to a temptor, makes no sense what so ever.
It would seem that either God doesn’t know all things or He likes to play games and is not a loving being, or the saying God lets Satan tempt people is wrong.
Remember, when God let the serpent tempt Adam and Eve, they had no experience with duplicity. It’s the equivalent of dropping some shiny guns into a group of six-year-olds, telling them not to play with them, then letting them watch “G.I.Joe” cartoons.
In fairness to Toad’s analogy (and I’m not commenting upon the analogy itself, mind you), you can also see the personal trainer urging one more rep.
He knows all possible combinations/outcomes of all choices, but he doesn’t know which choice you will actually make.
I don’t believe God exists, so my answer is hypothetical–but I can imagine a POTENTIALLY omnipotent and POTENTIALLY omniscient being deciding to limit the scope of its omniness by giving free will to certain of its creations, so that it could no longer KNOW exactly what choice they would make (though it could still be able to make very good forecasts because of its intimate knowledge of its free-will creations’ psyches).
Which is beside the point, considering that the debate assumes they do.
Even if he really knows what you are going to do you still have to do it. You still have to live your life and make those decisions.
In fairness to Toad’s analogy, that’s equivalent to the fact you can see satan urging you to buy the Krispy kreme. The contrast is that the krispy kreme itself is plainly and presently visible, contrasting the fact that that trim tummy that God is promising is, as yet, nothing but words.
Of course, taking this out of the analogy, though the promises of God are promises without evidence, tempting things are as often as not unseen expectations as well, which levels the playing field a little bit in some cases.
Oh, and not a theist, but I agree with those who pointed out that a temptation is something you want, and a trial is something you don’t want.
But Shirley there are many situations that are considered to be the work of Satan because there’s no way to spin it for God.
That which doesn’t kill you was God making you stronger; that which does kill you was the devil’s work. Err, despite him gaining no benefit from killing you. Well, it could always have just been happenstance!
Though it boggles the mind what act could be too brutal for the OT god to commit. He didn’t seem to be much bothered by collatteral damage, if it served his ends.
And don’t call me ‘surely’.
Nonsense. They were told not to partake of the fruit. They did so anyway. These people were not mindless dolts who didn’t understand the meaning of the phrase “Don’t eat the fruit.” They knew what it meant, the rationalized it away, and the succumbed.
“But they had no knowledge of what evil was!” one might exclaim. Such an objection reads way too much into the phrase “knowledge of good and evil.” They certainly had the mental faculties to understand what it means not to eat the fruit. What they lacked is the experiential knowledge of evil – knowing what it’s like to give in to the dark side. They gained that when they succumbed.
The whole story is nonsense.
And everyone thereafter was penalized for their decision. That’s fair.
Then you are saying that God doesn’t know more than a human Parent?
We are talking about a believer here, so it’s not a matter of heaven or hell, as all believers are eternally secure. All Satan can do is sidetrack the believer, which God will work for the good, but it may be a painful path.
Though God knows the outcome, Satan really doesn’t, and we don’t, therefor we get to see what we can do with God living in us.
As for free will, we really don’t have much, it is either obedience to God, or selling oneself as a slave to sin, once a slave, free will is no more.
God wants the best for His children, please don’t put this as a example, it’s misleading. Also believers are saved, they are not going to hell, no matter what they do. Salvation is a free gift, there is nothing we can do to earn it, there is nothing we can do to lose it.
He is not playing Himself, but Satan, who knows the game as well as the great chess masters and is very prideful, and can actually use the abilities of those great masters and combine their ability together. God however not only can see all outcomes to the infinite degree, but can change the rules or even change spacetime and already won.
Please cite that there is a biblical basis that the Angels----any Angels— were not ‘gifted with free will.’
The book of Job was only about Job in a tangential way. Satan claimed that Job--------as an example and representative of any human in his condition----- served God solely because of the benefits, and in the absence of these benefits would not serve God.
It was Satan who made the challenge, Satan who outlined the terms (although God put limitations on Satan’s activities) and *Satan *who administrered the “test.”
The question in the Book of Job (that Job answered) is not “Was Job a Good man?”, but, rather, “For what reasons do people serve God?”
Ironically, Job himself lost sight of the larger (and correct) question himself during his trials and had to be reminded of that in the concluding chapters.
In any event, you’ll find no compelling texts that suggest that Angels have no free will, or that Satan ‘works for God.’
**Christians: what is the difference between Satan TEMPTING us and God TESTING us? **
Satan tempting us is lots more fun.
This would seem to indicate a free will decision:
There is a big difference between God allowing Testing/Trials and/or Temptation and being the source of the test.
Most people who are facing tests of their faith (via trials or temptations) cannot reasonably say that God is testing them. God is not responsible for endemic sin, Satan’s activities or your choices. There is certainly more than enough evidence that God allows them—and in some contexts he may look like a fan of them.
Still, most tests/temptations that Christians are due to things and circumstances that God had nothing to do with. James wrote,* " 13When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death."* (Ja 1:13)
At any rate, it seems clear to me that God does little, and likely no testing. Rather, God may allow tests and temptations to refine, strengthen or establish the faith of someone. in other cases he may administer discipline to those he loves as a means of refining or strenthening someone’s faith. (cites upon request)
I just don’t see evidence that God is directly in the testing business.
Agreed.