Well, yeah. Like I said, I am not commenting on the specific case here.
Or let me put it more bluntly; should any poster who refers to a sport, movie, or TV show as “unwatchable” always receive a mod note for insulting people who enjoy it? Surely that’s not a good idea?
Now, if it was part of a non stop pattern of disruptive behaviour, you have a different problem.
We’re wasting time discussing misogyny spouted by a poster with a history of repeated misogynistic posts and warnings/topic bans for same.
ETA: given that the mods are in discussion, maybe my post should be toned down 1%.
The insult is not to the watchers, it is to the performers and creators. When the performers and creators are classified by gender, that’s sexism. When the gender so classified is women, that’s misogyny.
That might indeed be the case. Depends on context.
Just a reminder, anything that happens today will be based the body of work and not that single post. Arguing the fine minutia of that one post can continue of course, but the decision will not be based on just that by any means.
I don’t really see the need for it to be locked, but not my decision anyway. Not my forum.
I think it would be thread shitting pretty much any case of someone coming into a thread about X just to declare “X is unwatchable”, whereas “X is not my cup of tea” would likely be okay, if it were developed.
This particular case has the added thrill of misogyny.
Well, in this case it’s not just added thrill, it’s the heart of the matter. Had you or I posted exactly the same words this ATMB thread likely would not exist, but posting history must be used as a guide from understanding how to react to these things.
May I suggest that we add the post below the the mod discussion about the poster’s overall history.
Funny, I flagged that one 20 minutes ago. It adds to the discussion for sure.
Not really. It comes down to why, not just the wording used. I mean women’s basketball has historically been unwatchable for me IMO, because it’s none of the things I like about basketball- it’s been slow and considerably less dynamic than the comparable men’s game, even though the WNBA is raising the bar.
That doesn’t mean I have anything against women, or against women playing basketball. It means that for why I watch basketball, the women’s game doesn’t measure up. If others like it, more power to them.
FWIW, a post like yours barely raises an eyebrow to me: it mentions a specific sport in the context of a specific league and describes what aspects of the play aren’t watchable “for me IMO”.
That reminder that it’s just opinion is important, but more important than that, you’re talking about specific aspects of a league. The gender of the players is not what you’re talking about there nearly to the degree that dale was, who just declared that “most women’s sports are unwatchable.” His beef is clearly that it’s women.
The why is perfectly clear.
Before the poster in question expresses his dislike for women’s boxing he thouroughly removes any doubt as to what he is saying here with
…and after that it doesn’t matter anymore. The only weasel word is “most” and that fig leaf is too small even for him.
I’m sure “#NotAllNBAWatchers” are “hateful misogynists”, because: a) no group is ever all one thing; and b) well, that’s a sufficiently weaseled statement to to only apply to a subset of even the ones who are misogynists.
Mostly some flavour of sexist, though? Yeah, that’s the way I’d bet. Because 90% of the world is, at least a little.
It wasn’t the people who watch it who were being insulted in this case.
And it shouldn’t be a mod note, it should be a warning.
Does anyone want to take a wild stab at which women’s sports sports he does consider “watchable”?
I agree w/OP about this being threadshitting. I think there’s a difference between “I have an unpopular opinion about women’s sports I would like to express”, I think there are some threads where that would be fine. But in the thread in question it really just felt like the poster was doing a drive by shitting to stir people up, which I have seen from him in other threads related to women’s sports and women’s issues in general.
I think that the difference is that the thing that “women’s sports” have in common is women. And not in some sort of interesting thematic way – if someone were to say that Bollywood movies (or K-Pop, or Russian Opera, or yodeling) were unwatchable, I don’t think I would assume that they were being racist. And, I think that’s because “Bollywood movie” has a meaning (a vibe) beyond “film full of Indians” (even though that’s probably an inaccurate generalization as well; I don’t really know anything about Indian cinema, but if you say “Bollywood movie” I can imagine a particular type of film in a particular type of style).
I get that women’s sports in general do tend to be slower and less “dramatic” than men’s, especially team sports, and that a lot of people don’t watch them for that reason. But when one’s contribution is “Player X is crap and I’m glad she lost”, that’s not about what one likes to watch.
Unless someone specifically asked your opinion of the show, it would be threadshitting at the very least.
Yes, some reviewers use the term “unwatchable”, but it’s always in a context of showing contempt toward the work in question. A lot of reviewers don’t hold themselves to the “don’t be a jerk” rule–they like being feisty and trying to start fights.
Someone calling something unwatchable is saying that the show in question is worthy of contempt. The reason it is seen as misogynist in this case is that the show in question is women’s sports. And there is a long history of saying that women’s sports are lesser because they’re women.
I do not at all think that who the poster is matters in whether or not the post is appropriate. I think it matters only in how severe the punishment should be.
Because there was plenty of other non-toxic discussion going on in that thread, and there’s no reason to punish all the folks having that discussion.
Meanwhile, an update.