Churchill's Epaulet Insignia at Yalta?

I have examined the poor quality photo images available on the Internet and have been unable to determine what military insignia Winston Churchill wore on his overcoat in the famous photos of him, Roosevelt, and Stalin at the Yalta conference**.

Anything on his right shoulder seems to be overexposed in most of the photos. His left shoulder in many photos seems to have some sort of insignia. This photo appears to show a couple of bright “bumps” (buttons? stars?) on each shoulder epaulet.
Yalta photo

I have read that he generally displayed one of two ranks during WWII – either a Regiment Colonel of the 4th Hussars or an Air Force Air Commodore. But researching the insignia related to these titles hasn’t helped.
Churchill military ranks

Here is a great video: Yalta video

Here is a photo of him wearing shoulder boards for the Air Commodore title: Churchill Air Commodore

There is the possibility of course that his epaulets on his overcoat are not military insignia at all. But I’ve never seen a two button epaulet.

**Why am I asking about this? I am painting pewter figurines of Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin sitting in their chairs at Yalta and I want to be as accurate as possible (though I’m not going to try and duplicate the Persian rugs under their chairs. :slight_smile: )

Crombie, the manufacturer of the British Warm overcoat that Churchill was wearing at Yalta, has a bit about it on their site:

https://www.crombie.co.uk/crombie-chronicle/churchill-the-british-warm/

It mentions a few other places where he wore the same one, so maybe you can find better photographs of those occasions?

Aha. A good lead. Thanks!

Looks like he wore an RAF uniform indoors at least part of the time at Yalta: http://ww2today.com/5th-february-1945-churchill-roosevelt-and-stalin-meet-at-yalta

It’s a little clearer here: Churchill enters the Livadia Palace for the Yalta Conference, Feb. 8,... News Photo - Getty Images

None of these look like what he wore on his epaulettes; has the RAF changed its insignia since 1945?: RAF officer ranks - Wikipedia

If it’s not RAF uniform, it might be Royal Army uniform, in which case I think Churchill could be displaying the crown-and-two-pips of a Royal Army colonel: British Army officer rank insignia - Wikipedia

Excuse the pedantry, but it’s not the Royal Army. It’s the British Army. It’s the Royal Navy, due to historical funding reasons, and the RAF just went with the “Royal” when it became its own branch during WWI.

At the time, Church was the regimental colonel of the 4th Queens Own Hussars, so an army uniform with colonel’s insignia is probably a good guess.

Here in America, we just call 'em Redcoats.

Point taken, and I knew that. Thanks.

Hereis a decent photo of Churchill in uniform at Yalta with his coat off. It looks like a Colonel’s badge with a crown and two crosses.

Pips, not crosses: Colonel (United Kingdom) - Wikiwand

WinstonChurchill.org says the uniform was Honorary Colonel, 4th/5th (Cinque Ports) Battalion, The Royal Sussex Regiment

From here:

Many of the photos I have found of Churchill in late 1945 shows him wearing a peaked cap adorned with the emblem of the Royal Sussex 4th Battalion.

Churchill photo here: http://www.culture24.org.uk/am69952

Alas, this does not solve my epaulet question. The pewter figurines have a couple of bumps. So I’ll just paint those bumps gold and call it a day.

I would have thought this question would have been easier to solve though. The Internet has failed me.

That’s a great photo. I wonder if his overcoat had the same epaulets.

What does a pip on an epaulet look like?

Is it simply a gold colored … um … pip? Do they look like what Prince William has on his epaulets for his marriage uniform?
http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Kate+Middleton/Royal+Wedding+2/-ZWvL1fdwg2

That Getty photo with him removing his overcoat shows the overcoat “pips” nicely. I wish I had the magic CSI computer program that resolves magnified pixels into something recognizable. :slight_smile:

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Yes. Prince William wore his uniform as a colonel of the Irish Guards that day. See “Groom and best man” here: Wedding of Prince William and Catherine Middleton - Wikipedia

Fixed the link from post 10: Colonel (United Kingdom) - Wikiwand

According to that Wiki article, the pips are miniature “Bath Stars”: Order of the Bath - Wikiwand

Here are some better pics of British uniform pips:



http://cdn3.volusion.com/yrcrx.thzkt/v/vspfiles/photos/CRS13M-2.jpg

Where Google failed to deliver, the Straight Dope succeeded.

This photo you shared is perfect!

I am convinced that this is what is on Churchill’s overcoat epaulets at Yalta.

Thank you!

The 'Dope never fails.

+1

(I am now so used to texting a “thumbs up” emoji, that I miss it here.)