Cigarette assholes

The BBQ Pit
61

No, Alpha, that would make both of us assholes since I SO agree with you. (And no, I’m not going to do a “rosie” and put 800 exclamation points after it - just consider this empathetic.)

Good Lord, talk about some anal retentive people. And you know, Alphagene, while I don’t know if you have experienced this, but where I am at, the public ashtrays would be a whole lot more “useable” if those non-smoking jagwads wouldn’t use them as their own personal goddamn garbage cans. Hey - jerkoff - put your fucking coffee cup/soda can/wadded up memo/BigMac Wrapper in the GARBAGE CAN - not the ASHTRAY. Ashtrays are NOT FOR YOUR GARBAGE - THEY ARE FOR CIGARETTES. So - all you self righteous better-than-thou cretins - I’ll get out of your face when you get out of mine.

Now, gotta run - the “voices” are telling me to go have a cigarette. :rolleyes:

62

I’d like to ask all you smokers: If it’s “anal retentive” to not like to see people flicking butts, is it also “anal retentive” to not like to see people willfully toss gum wrappers, small scraps of paper, other garbage on the ground? Is the thowing of any small trash item OK in your book? Just because a person is too fricking lazy to dispose of the trash properly? Why is this no big deal? And why, for the love of Pete, when some of us complain about the laziness of the butt-flicker, is your response that we should clean up THEIR mess?

No, flicking butts or any other small trash item is not the WORST thing a person can do. But I do not understand why some of you would so vehemently try to dismiss it, and insist that it is someone else’s “problem” if they don’t like it. This is the epitome of absurd. Come on. You know it’s lazy. You know that if you really wanted to, you could dispose of your butts in a more considerate manner. But instead of doing that, you point the finger at other people, and complain about them for not liking YOUR laziness?

Geez. You know, it isn’t the fact that you are too fricking lazy to clean up after yourself that appalls me this much. It’s that you are so vehemently trying to dismiss it (and call anyone who disagrees with you “anal”) that appalls me.

63

I swear, so many of you are missing my whole point. Please read my last post on the first page. We all do things that are occasioanlly lazy or wrong. Have you ever gossiped about someone, yosemite? Almost everyone does. But if you have, you know it’s wrong and yet you do it anyway. And there’s no way you can honestly say you’ll never do it again. You can say you’ll try, but sometimes its just too tempting. It’s a slightly bad thing you do occasionally. A slightly bad thing that can really annoy or hurt other people.

I do bad stuff like that too, yosemite. I just had the balls to admit to it her in a public thread.

I’m going to say this one more time for the sake of the few crusading antismoking ecolovers who refuse to comprehend the point of my rant:

I’m not trying to absolve myself of the littering I have done or will do, I am merely asking if all of you are so pure of conscience in in your own lives that you can criticize me for it at the level of ferocity that you have.

If I opened a thread admitting that I occasioanlly return videos to Blockbuster without rewinding them there is no way I would get this hostility from posters. No threads saying “You rude asshole FUCKER!!! Some poor video store worker at MINUMUM WAGE now has to spend time rewinding that tape just because you’re too damn LAZY!!! It’s called COMMON COURTESY!!!”

I think people just have a massive thorny bug up their butt about smokers. Sure a lot smokers are rude. But this thread has shown me that a lot of nonsmokers are presumptuous, rude and self-righteous. But I’m enough of a human being that I won’t let that cloud my judgement of the nice nonsmokers I know.

Put that in your little Altoid tin.

64

And I think you smokers are missing the point as well.

Let’s just leave this topic at littering, and not bring up returning Blockbuster tapes, or copying MP3s. Which are completely different “minor transgressions” than the one we are talking about. The issue at hand is the idea that some people consistently and willfully throw small bits of trash on the ground. And that is LITTERING. That’s basically what this discussion is about.

Most people (well, at least most people I know) feel that there is a stigma attached to willfully littering. As a small child it is drummed into you, to NOT LITTER. Right? And when you see a sidewalk, or a beach covered with other people’s crap, is annoys you. It makes a place look dirty and tacky. As a child I remember hearing my parents lament at the littered sidewalk, or beach, and telling me to never leave my litter on the ground like that. And they’d comment on the lazy assholes who littered (using a word other than “asshole”, but I got the drift.) It is one of the most base things that most people (at least most people I know) get drummed into them, at an early age. CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF. So, when some grown adults act as if they don’t have to be bothered, expect some of us to be mightily irritated.

It isn’t just a smoking thing, at least not for me. I would get just as irritated if someone had a habit of willfully tossing their gum wrappers on the ground. And I would get livid if the gum-wrapper-tosser had this cavalier attitude, suggesting that it was someone else’s problem if they didn’t like seeing the litter’s gum wrappers all over the damned ground. It would make me see red if the gum-wrapper-thrower snottily suggested that I should clean up their gum wrappers if it bothered me so much. At that point, it wouldn’t be so much about their thoughtlessness of throwing the gum wrapper on the ground that would piss me off. It would be their crappy attitude about the whole thing.

65

yosemite, I agree with you that littering is a crappy thing to do. I think this is the eighth or ninth time I’ve said this in this thread. I’ll say it in bold yet again.

I know littering is wrong.

But I’ll probably wind up littering it again. Not gratitously, not to be egregious, or rude, or disrespectful but because I realize I am a human being with flaws.

No. That is the issue that some people are obessessing over. Litter and how rude and inhuman it is. Like I said, I agree its is wrong. You think littering is bad and so do I. So there really is no more argument there.

I am suggesting that the real issue here is the bizarre overzealous anger I am receiving for admitting that I occasionally litter. Anger that seems hypocritcal knowing that other fellow imperfect human beings themselves consciously commit crimes of this magnitude every day. Crimes that other people have to clean up after, even if just in a metaphorical sense.

It is this hypocricy that I have yet to see addressed directly by anyone. Every time I post saying “I know I occasionally litter, and I know it’s wrong, but we all occasionally do bad things. So don’t act all morally superior.”

And the only response I get is “BUT LITTERING IS WRONG, ASSHOLE!”

Well, duh.

[Edited by Alphagene on 10-17-2000 at 12:53 PM]

66

As someone who smokes occasionally, albeit non-filtered cigarettes. I generally break up the end before I do something with them. Let, me add a Bay Area perspective. Now, in some cities, it might be fine to dump them in the gutters. Here, most drains run directly into the bay. If you dump butts on the sidewalk (which is actually better than the gutter or street) or in the gutter, it will most likely end up in the bay. I can understand some people getting upset about that.

67

It would be easier to do that, if I didn’t read statements like “if it bothers you up so much, clean it up yourself”, and “stop being so anal”, and “put that in your Altoid tin”. Sure, we all are flawed. Sure, we all do flawed things. But most of us do not get the snotty “attitude” that I see here, when confronted about it. I don’t think I’ve ever thoughtlessly thrown a gum wrapper on the ground (I was raised right!) but if I did, I sure as Hell wouldn’t get all snotty about it, when someone called me on it. I’d just gulp and say “Yep, that was bad, I won’t do it again. Really.” I’d never dream of telling the person who bitched to me about it that they should clean it up themselves. I’d never call them “anal”. It’s not “anal” to hate to see trash all over the ground, at least not in my book.

In regards to the smoking hypocricy issue…I, personally, am not going to get all that more riled up about cig butts compared to gum wrappers. They both bother me. They both are an act of tackiness, and laziness. As I said, I was raised to believe that littering is a major “minor transgression”. Or maybe it’s because I like to go to the beach, or a National Park (like Yosemite - and you know how seriously I take Yosemite!) and not see bits of trash on the ground.

68

oldscratch:
I can understand that too. But my point is that to assume that the person who flicked that butt is without doubt a “lazy” “brainwashed” “egregious” “asshole” who lacks “common courtesy” I think is a bit over the top.

69

That’s funny, that’s exactly the way I’d descibe the responses I’ve gotten from the non-smokers, starting right from the snotty topic of this thread. “Cigarette assholes”? Spare me! He started a snotty thread so I gave a snotty response. I responded in kind, I didn’t draw first blood.

Fight snot with snot, I always say.

70

spoken like a “lazy” “brainwashed” “egregious” “asshole” who lacks “common courtesy”.

71

“Gum wrapper assholes”, or “Cigarette assholes”. The way I see it, the name would fit, either way. In my book, anyway. If a person is too frigging lazy to throw away their trash, they are being (at least in that area) an asshole. Not a 100% total asshole forever, but for that moment, in that instance.

It isn’t as if the OP was titled “Smokers are assholes”. Maybe that was implied - but the title was in regards to the actual item being thrown away. In this case, cigarettes.

If I were confronted because I was too lazy to throw away my gum wrappers, I would just feel like I’d have to take the snottiness. Just gulp, and take it. Even if the person were a being snotty about it. I mean, if I were too frigging lazy to throw my own trash away, and instead I just tossed it on the ground, I guess I would think I’d be asking for a little snottiness to come my way. I mean, I was raised to know better. And it isn’t as if NOT throwing your trash on the ground is such an arduous and difficult thing to do. It’s done out of laziness. So I don’t have a lot of sympathy for a person who gets their feathers ruffled because someone dares to be “snotty” to them. They are a lazy dolt who cannot manage to clean up after themselves, and yet they are upset because someone call them on it? Puleeze.

72

[Moderating mode ON]

Gratiuitous insults are not tolerated in the Pit, zwaldd. We got a lively discussion as it is, we don’t need trollish posts to stir things up further. Don’t do it again.

[Moderating mode OFF]

73

See I disagree. If I were asked flat out, why do you litter with your ciggie butts occasionally? I’d admit that it is sometimes because I’m in a rush or because sometimes I’m just not thinking. That doesn’t justify it, but that’s my rationale.

On the other hand, if someone accuse me of being an asshole for occasionally doing that (which the topic absolutely suggests, unless he means that cigarettes themselves possess assholes) than I can’t help be be snotty about it in return and point out that his snottiness could easily be applied to his own crimes.

74

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Alphagene *
**

Yeah. Some people think it’s funny, but it’snot.

BTW, as an adamantly polite smoker, I just wanted to register my resentment toward anyone in this thread who has generalized and lumped all smokers together as lazy assholes. A couple people have attempted to defend some of us polite smokers, but I just want to say this:

I dress out my butts too. If I go to the beach, I pack ‘em out and throw away the butts along with the potato chip wrappers, soda cans and other garbage. I don’t want manatees choking on my trash – nor do I want them choking on yours. I will take the time to pick up your fishing lines and other miscellaneous crap at the beach because I care about nature. I do not smoke in non-smokers’ presence (unless you’re in my house – but I will refrain in my own car with a non-smoker, because you have nowhere to go.)

I would sooner be dragged naked, screaming and covered in olive oil through the streets of Baghdad than to toss my butts out the car window, on the sidewalk or into a [gasp] gutter, where it will find its way into the water supply. My car smells “like ass.” So sue me. Or don’t ride with me. As a smoker, I resent being generalized as a lazy asshole when I will take the time to clean up after the lazy asshole smokers.

So, continue on with your respective, ridiculous rants, but remember one thing: semantics matter. Please be specific: are you referring to ALL smokers, all non-smokers, or just the lazy asshole smokers, or just the nazi-born-again non-smokers (ex-smokers)?

At least then I’ll know at whom I should toss my lit fucking butts while I’m cruising down the freeway in my ass-smelling car…

75

This is still going on?

The reason smokers are getting defensive is because smokers were singled out. The OP didn’t mention littering it mentioned cigarette butts. Actually, the OP wasn’t that bad, except for the title, which isn’t “Littering Assholes” - it’s “Cigarette Assholes” The smokers are the assholes for dropping their butts; not people who drop a gum wrapper, not people toss a soda can, just the smokers. The smokers who have done this have (that I’ve seen) all admitted it and no one has claimed it is right. Then we go on to say that we should not be singled out as everyone does something along those lines, maybe not littering, but everyone does something wrong.

What if I start a thread called “Car driving assholes” and rail against all who speed. Do you know how many deaths are caused on the highway each year from speeders? It’s against the law, it endangers lives, but I’ll bet everyone here who drives has done it at some point or another. Does that make you an asshole? No, it makes you flawed just like the rest of us. It’s forgivable.

My favorite bit though, was Montfort’s later post.
“I made the OP because I see butts all the time in DC, and they ruin what is actually a rather lovely city. And, they’re everywhere, on the sidewalks, in the gutters. And people don’t even think twice about dropping them, much less snuffing them out by stomping on them with their shoe.”

I have traveled extensively throughout the states, and have been to DC (Andrews AFB) about 4 or 5 times. It is a lovely city, but to say it’s the cigarette butts that ruin it? In all the places I’ve been to with friedns while in the AF, we never left thinking, “Wow, what a wonderful city. Too bad about all those cigarette butts though. Really ruined the place for me. The Smithsonian just wasn’t worth wading through all those butts.”

You want to know what ruins visiting an otherwise lovely city for me? The run down ghettos. The drug dealers on the corners. Graffiti marking gangland territory.

I think what Alpha and I are trying to get the rest of you to understand is, yes, we know littering is wrong. We’re claiming mea culpa there. But put things in perspective. Everybody does things that are wrong, but in the scheme of things these are minor infractions. They are not unforgivable, do not make people assholes, and not worthy of such vehemence.

76

I think I was just raised differently on this littering issue. I guess I had parents with a “tree hugger” bent, because it was REALLY drummed into my head to not litter. I can easily claim that I do NOT, ever litter “occasionally”. I know I have probably littered some in my entire lifetime, but it would not be qualified as “occasionally”. Never merely because I was “in a rush”, or “wasn’t thinking”. Nope, it doesn’t compute. I cannot fathom how someone could be so thoughtless that they would do this. I see no excuse for this. It’s just lazy, and it DOES impact on others, and on our environment, and it ticks me off. And I’m obviously not the only one that is ticked off. And as I said before, my heart does not bleed with sympathy because some lazy litterer type gets their feathers ruffled over any “snottiness” directed at them. Too bad. Boo hoo.

“Asshole” is a term that can be used liberally these days. The person who cut me off in traffic the other day? Asshole. The person who farted in the elevator? Asshole. The person who got something from the freezer section of the grocery store and then changed their mind, but didn’t return it to the frozen section? Asshole. No, not a 100% total asshole forever, but for that inconsiderate or lazy act, an asshole, for that moment. I have no problem using that term, in that context.

77

to the alphagene the moderator: you’re right, sorry about that.

to alphagene the litterbug: but it was just a little gratuitous insult.
you litter, i hurl gratuitous insults. we both have our little vices. what’s the problem? after all, i’m just one person hurling one insult.
(get it? i’m making an analogy here, ignoring my own advice and attempting to use logical reasoning.)

78

Well, yosemite, regardless of your upbringing, I’m glad that the discussion between you and I here has been quite snot-free. And I appreciate that.

I do sympathize a bit with the snottiness of the non-smokers, I’ve known plenty of rude smokers myself. Plus, there are posters on this board (like the Serlin clones) who view smoking as their religion. Their post rants are so pro-smoking that they practically advocate exhaling their smoke down the gullets of pregnant women so their children will be born knowing the joys of nicotine.

I assure you I am not that way. I take no joy or pride in my littering, I just dutifully and honestly report its existence.

Pray for me. :wink:

79

No prob. Go and sin no more.

Heh. Cute. But unlike the real world, where ciggie littering is rarely prosecuted, we can and do “prosecute” for gratuitous insults at the SDMB.

If you continuously threw out insults like that, it doesn’t make you an evil human being, it just makes you a bad poster and an occasional sinner.

I will pray for your soul, too.

80

Now that the flames have kinda died down, I just wanted to say one thing to yosemitebabe.

I completely understand what you are saying, but I am in the same boat as Crunchy and Alf, meaning I know it’s wrong, but I will admit I do it. (Mt first post in here was a little hostile because things were hostile at the time and archer really pissed me off. It’s a lot nicer now.) But what I do want to point out is that there is a difference between throwing away your garbage and throwing away your cig butts. First, let me emphasize, it is a small difference, but a difference none the less. The difference is that your soda can / bag of chips / water bottle is not on fire at the time that you want to get rid of it. So when Alf said,

it’s not becuase he does not want to throw it away, but I would guess that it is more along the lines of, “Hey this thing is on fire and I want to get rid of it. Well, let see, I can’t put it in a trash can unless I want to get arrested for arson, and I’ll miss my bus if I hunt around for an ashtray, so I’ll just throw it into the gutter.” (Alf, I am not trying to put words in your mouth, really, I am just guessing that this is what you meant)

Basically, what I am trying to say is that, it’s not like smokers are just standing around trying not to properly throw away their butts. It’s more like, it’s a real pain in the ass sometimes trying to find an ashtray and sometimes you just don’t have the time (or in some cases they are just lazy) to hunt around to find one. And as I said before, I am not going to carry around an Altoids can or any other can because I simply do not have the room in my pockets to put it.

This is no way meant as an excuse, and I am not trying to start another fight or anything. I am just trying to point out that some of us try, just not hard enough.

-N