Deflecting away from the core issue here. Car exhaust is something that almost everyone is responsible for - we all can point fingers at each other endlessly with that one. So we all have to work on that problem together. Junk food is bad for you, but it doesn’t smell, and there is no such thing as “second hand” junk food. Besides, you are trying hard to deflect from the OP, which is about flicking butts.
Hey, I don’t care who smokes. I just don’t want to see their litter, and I don’t want to smell their smoke in an enclosed space. And, pardon me if I don’t see smokers as “victims” because they can’t spread their smoke everywhere they see fit. And I don’t see them as “victims” because they willingly started an expensive habit, and now they are hooked. But hey - as long as they don’t whine about their supposed “victimhood”, and don’t blow smoke in my face, I don’t care what they do. If that makes me a “hypocrite”…well, you know where you can stick your butt.
Your “protest” is lazy, and boorish, and an exercise in futility. Such childish behavior does nothing to further your “poor me, I’m a victim” cause.
And I do not believe that you are serious in the belief that your pathetic excuse for “protest” will call attention to your “plight”. It just makes you look like the lazy, inconsiderate, littering boor that you are. Your behavior merely gives rabid anti-smokers more fuel for their dislike for smokers. If I were a smoker who was considerate in disposing of my butts, I’d be pissed with you. You make all smokers look like lazy louts.
Well, I am certainly not perfect. But as I mentioned before, if I were called on a bad habit like littering, I doubt I’d whine, become outraged, and make excuses for it. It’s not so much the bad habit, or the flaws. It’s the whining and excuses and the absolute outrage when anyone dares call them on it.
And yeah, it’s the “protesting” louts like Wolfman, who flicks his butts because he’s angry at the world. I guess because it’s not universally enchanted with his smoking. Or something…
Seriously - are you siding with this guy? Are you going to flick butts too, as a form of “civil disobedience”?
Good to know you have some sense in that area! So I am right in supposing that most smokers would not be pleased with his antics?
Well, “make” is not a word I’d use. No one “makes” anyone else smoke. They choose to smoke. Wherever they can, apparently.
I don’t buy that smokers are more compelled to flick butts while outside. No considerate person will think that “Well, it’s outside” is a viable excuse to drop litter on the ground. There’s the ever trusty Altoids tin, and other effective butt-disposal techniques. And, as has been cited here several times, even when there is an ashtray outside, some of the smokers still manage to “miss” it. I don’t think they “miss” an ashtray inside as much because they don’t want to carpet catching on fire. But outside? I guess they figure it doesn’t matter. Well, newsflash: It DOES matter. It’s littering, and there’s no excuse for it.
I live in a white apartment, but it’s not ivory, nor is it a tower. But, I’m about 15 miles away from the U.S. Capitol building, where laws are made. Although, this is, for better or for worse, a state issue, so go to your state’s capitol and complain.
I enjoy good quality beer…I’m even a home brewer myself. Sometimes when I feel some stress at home, I’ll relax with a cold one…can you believe my employer actually MAKES me wait until I’m off work before I enjoy a cold one…geez…the nerve…I think just for spite I’ll bring all my bottle caps to work and flick 'em on the front lawn…that’ll show 'em
the American public is and why that simian little acephalic ingrate Bush will lead us all to hell. Yes I smoke, yes I rip the burning end off the cigarette with any remaing tobacco and put the filter in my pocket but only if I am in a spot where it won’t be picked up by someone who earns their living cleaning up after the public. If no one littered these people would be put out of work. It is a latent beneficial function of littering. Is that incendiary? Too fucking bad. Anyone who hasn’t arrived at the conclusion that this subject is pathetically miniscule in relation to the really big issues we face, like overpopulation–any terminal valves who have more than one child who bleat about this problem should be run over with their own SUVs–is caught up in the bread and circus appearances which ensure that we leave nothing more than a smoking husk to our children. Lebensraum disputes, famines, global warming, erosion of civil rights, institutionalized misogny and racism, etc., etc., ad nauseum–take your pick; any of these things are more important than thoughtless people who flick their spent cheroots in the street. Use your fucking heads. Idiots.
Oh, sure. There are far worse things than littering. (That’s what this is about, by the way…littering.) But littering is one of those lazy, inconsiderate, needless little annoyances that we needn’t face. And when we see supposedly evolved, civilized people act as if “So what? There are far worse things!” when it comes to littering (because, once again, that’s essentially what this is about.) I want to ask, "WHAT?!?! WHAT?!?! Were you raised by fricking WOLVES? Pick up after yourselves!"
And the absolute outraged attitude of this last butt-flicker (well, he flicks his butts sometimes…) is what I am talking about. Kudos to you for disposing of your litter some of the time. Really, good for you. But you know, just because there are some poor working schlubs out there that are paid some miserable wage to PICK UP YOUR GARBAGE doesn’t mean you have to give them “extra” work. They have enough other slobs to clean up after. Are you proud you are one of these slobs as well? Hey, since they are apparently there to pick up after the likes of you, why don’t you throw all your other garbage on the ground as well? Why stop at butts?
Ahh yes, the old argument that there are BIGGER problems in the world, so we dare not waste any time discussing anything but those bigger problems…
I’m guessing you never complain to any of your friends at the bar, work or gym about anything EXCEPT the above mentioned major problems in the world…you never complain about the way people drive…or loud music blaring in your neighborhood…or shitty service from stores…or when streets dont get plowed out in a reasonable amount of time…you ONLY discuss major global problems…etc
Funny, I looked at Montfort’s original post (and similar posts) and don’t recall any attempt to equate this with problems like world hunger or overpopulation…
And the absolute outraged attitude of this last butt-flicker (well, he flicks his butts sometimes…) is what I am talking about. Kudos to you for disposing of your litter some of the time. Really, good for you. But you know, just because there are some poor working schlubs out there that are paid some miserable wage to PICK UP YOUR GARBAGE doesn’t mean you have
to give them “extra” work. They have enough other slobs to clean up after. Are you proud you are one of these slobs as
well? Hey, since they are apparently there to pick up after the likes of you, why don’t you throw all your other garbage on the ground as well? Why stop at butts?
In fact, your post will make me think twice about flicking my butts anywhere anymore. But your final sentence is a totalization of the problem which obscures a more gentle truth. We all do things which aren't good for each other or ourselves. We also make accomodations quite readily for own shortcomings and are averse to extending the same generosity to others. I have a friend who makes a nice living wage cleaning the concourses and walkways at a major West coast university. That's all he does. He makes about six hundred after tax dollars a week and has benefits. Not great, not too shabby. He ain't no schlub neither. He would be unemployed if no one littered though. It's honest work. He does a good job. It is a worthy undertaking. Calling him a schlub isn't very nice, but it serves a function for you.
But if you are concerned about contamination of the environment why not talk about burning coal or assholes dumping motor oil down the drain or all the packaging you throw in the trash or many other things? I agree that littering is bad but as far as social pathologies go, it is tres petit, like you. Your last post, though you didn't know it at the time, was intended to make you feel better about yourself. You are secure in that you are now quite decisively a better person than I am. I defer to your superiority in awe and devotion. How ironic that your missive would have the beneficial unintended consequence of making me think twice about littering!
I am a working “schlub” myself, so no, I am not intending to use the term in a derogatory way. I come from a long line of “schlubs”, thank you. And I am glad that your friend makes a good living. Not everyone in his line of work does, though. Besides, you are skirting the issue - does your friend THANK YOU when you add extra trash to the ground? Is his job in that much danger that every little bit helps? Does he encourage you to litter, so he’ll have job security? Do all smokers “owe it” to guys like your friend to keep on littering? Is that what you are implying?
What? Is this the old tactic of “Why are you bitching, about this, while there are more IMPORTANT things to bitch about”? Because we already covered that, hun.
As I have mentioned previously in this thread, it isn’t so much that flicking butts is SOOO bad, it’s the outraged and indignant attitude of smokers when they are confronted with it. That’s what rankles. We are all flawed, but at least we should have the guts and take it when we are called up on one of our tacky, lazy habits. But what we are seeing on this thread is that some of you cannot manage to do that. You have to get indignant, and point to global warming, or whatever, rather than just admit it’s a lazy, inexcusable habit that you could stop, if you wanted to.
Oh, this is toooo rich! Now you are analyzing me? Your little condescending crap about “you didn’t know it at the time…” Could you be more of a condescending windbag? This is hilarous. Honey, my last post didn’t make me “feel better about myself”. However, your last post made me laugh! The gall! The victimized smoker’s outrage! What entertainment!
:rolleyes: Oh, that bites. You know, the sarcasm. Oh oh oh. I am soooo crushed. You seem worried that some of us feel like we are “better” than you are. Get over it, honey.
self righteousness in your little busybody tirade about jerks who flick their butts everywhere? Get real. Of course it’s wrong to throw trash of any sort on the ground. I am the first to admit it. Where is the victimized smoker’s outrage? I don’t get that at all. What I do get is that your rankled attitude is exactly analogous to the demented accomodations to slovenliness that the smokers have thrust forth. The absence of courage you find so distasteful gels perfectly with your need to upbrade others for their bad habit. The logic is symmetrical and tautologous. You need each other.
Now let me help you off that proud steed and let’s have a smoke, there, Miss Manners. Oooh! Sorry! Did I burn you?
“As I have mentioned previously in this thread, it isn’t so much that flicking butts is SOOO bad, it’s the outraged and
indignant attitude of smokers when they are confronted with it. That’s what rankles. We are all flawed, but at least we
should have the guts and take it when we are called up on one of our tacky, lazy habits. But what we are seeing on this
thread is that some of you cannot manage to do that. You have to get indignant, and point to global warming, or
whatever, rather than just admit it’s a lazy, inexcusable habit that you could stop, if you wanted to.”
I don’t give piss christ what you think about me, you holier-than-thou little Martinette.
"Besides, you are skirting the issue - does your friend THANK YOU when you add extra trash to the ground? Is his job in
that much danger that every little bit helps? Does he encourage you to litter, so he’ll have job security? Do all smokers “owe it” to guys like your friend to keep on littering? Is that what you are implying?
Not only are you a little busybody control freak, you are none too bright. Should he thank me? What does gratitude have to do with it? The simple fact is that people litter. People are going to continue to litter. To say that something which actually exists shouldn’t won’t change it. If you analyze littering, one of the things you come up with is that littering has an aspect which isn’t entirely bad. I am not saying that one should litter. Just that if no one did, then people would be put out of work. Just lookin’ on the bright side is all. Ideally (never never land) people wouldn’t litter and ideally, people would take stock of their own defects and work on them, rather than seeking to get other’s comportment to conform to what they consider to be right.
It is where you point fingers away from yourself, and where you bring up all the ills of the world, as if to imply that everyone is picking on “poor li’l old victimized you” when they should be worrying about more important things.
Yep. Yep. Yep. Pompous windbag. The epitome of pompous windbag. Oh. My. Gosh. How hilarious!
I see you didn’t answer the question I had about your friend . DO smokers “owe it” to folks like him to keep on flicking butts? That is what you are implying, you know.
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Now let me help you off that proud steed and let’s have a smoke, there, Miss Manners. Oooh! Sorry! Did I burn you?
[/quote]
Oh my. That was more of your stinging sarcasm, wasn’t it? Oh wow. That was a zinger! :rolleyes:
Could you do everyone a huuuuge favor and learn how to use the quote function? Please?
Yeah. Right. That is why you keep on mentioning it (I didn’t start that line of thinking, you did.) And noooo - you don’t care at ALL. That’s why you are almost having a shit hemorrhage on this thread.
Just because you think that something is implied doesn’t mean it is. Of course I am not implying that I should be thanked for littering. To draw this inference is absurd. I wish that you would take a little more effort to come up with a rational refutation of what I have been saying than just quoting me (with no small dexterity! Damn you are a good quoter) and saying that I am pompous. And no, I am not angry. I deal with these kinds of cognitive distrotions all the time. The fact that you haven’t been able to address what I have been saying is de facto proof that my assertions are true. Now use your little noggy or I won’t play anymore.
Well, my dear, (using that clever quote function again) here is what you wrote previously. Why wouldn’t I see this as an excuse for flicking butts?
Yeah, all those janitors have you to thank for their jobs! So keep on flickin’! They need you!
You ARE pompous. Your rambling, verbose rantings are evidence of that. And if you’ll notice, a lot of Dopers use the quote function. You might try it sometime.
Oh, nooooo. You weren’t angry when you wrote this:
Or this:
Or this:
Nope. No anger there. None at all. :rolleyes:
What EXACTLY are you “trying to address”? That you are not a pompous windbag? (That last quote takes the cake, by the way.) That we are not “better” than you? (Since apparently that possibility vexes you.) That you are doing a service to society by giving more work to janitors? That we should worry only about global warming, and not pick on poor, long-suffering victimized smokers who are too fricking lazy to use an ashtray? WHAT?
