Circumcision debate - why the obsession?

Catsix, I don’t know if you’re really as stupid as you’re acting or if it’s just some fucked up act.

Again, I have no idea what a “sky pixie” is, nor was I debating the Christian religion. The “invisible pink unicorns” thing is an analogy to explain why it’s absurd to be asked to prove that God doesn’t exist. In logic, having no evidence of something is sufficient to conclude, provisionally, that it’s not there.

I didn’t bring up the Davidians at all. Someone else did, in an analogy whose point was obviously completely lost on you.

WHAT IN THE NAME OF GOD IS WRONG WITH YOU?

I was responding to the fact that you equated violation of the law with “fucked up obsession”. I was illustrating the fact that it’s not necessarily “fucked up” to violate the law - in fact, in some cases doing something in violation of the law is the only moral act.

I DID NOT CALL YOU A NAZI. IF YOU THINK I CALLED YOU A NAZI, IT’S BECAUSE YOU’RE STUPID. YES, I DID JUST CALL YOU STUPID. THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS CALLING YOU A NAZI.

I don’t know why you keep doing this - ignoring everything I say in order to pick out words that you can interpret as insults. Here’s a clue: when I point out that you’re batshit insane, that’s an insult. If I say anything about Nazis, it’s not an insult. I wouldn’t compare anyone to the Nazis because murdering millions of people is different than, for instance, correcting grammar (as in the common term “Grammar Nazi”), fighting for women’s rights (like in the idiotic right-wing slur “Feminazi”) and so on. I wouldn’t call you a Nazi unless you killed ten million people, started a world war, and proclaimed yourself the head of the National Socialist party. So don’t worry.

Listen carefully! NO ONE EQUATED THE TWO. I would never do so, because I don’t think the murder of millions of people is something to be treated lightly. I do not compare people to Nazis simply because they disagree with me.

I simply pointed out that whether something is legal or not is not a good way to determine if it’s moral, and violating the law can be either bad or good depending on the circumstance. You stated that - and this is a paraphrase, but an accurate one - if Jewish people are willing to circumcise their kids in violation of the law, than it’s a “fucked up obsession”. You specifically cited the notion that doing it if it were illegal would indicate a “fucked up obsession”. You stated that it was the illegality of the act that made it a “fucked up obsession”. I was just pointing out that legality has nothing to do with whether it’s a “fucked up obsession”.

Can I possibly be any clearer here?

Look, catsix, I don’t know what’s wrong with you. I don’t know why your “argument” consists of repeating the same things over and over, and then twisting everything anyone else says into some bizarro-world version of what you think a counterargument might be. If you read what I say, you’ll see that I never once compared you, or any anti-circumcision folks, to Nazis. I never claimed there was anything similar. I made no comparison.

Meanwhile, I don’t hate you, but it’s becoming clear that you’re a lot worse that “batshit insane”. Maybe you act like this as a joke or something; maybe Weirddave was right earlier. But at any rate, I think you’ve proven the OP’s point that while most people can discuss the issue calmly, a certain number of people in favor of banning it are batshit insane morons. I just wish you’d leave the thread and let me talk to Chotii and Mangetout (if he comes back) in peace.

That’s my argument exactly. I can understand disagreement, but I still haven’t been convinced that it’s harmful enough to justify banning it. But I could be like catsix.

[batshit insane mode]
THE STATE MUST STEP IN TO PROTECT THE FORESKINS OF THE WEAK, FOR THIS IS THE GREATEST INJUSTICE THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN. THERE IS NO REASON TO DO IT EVER, EVEN IF MOST GUYS WHO HAVE CIRCUMCISED PENISES ARE HAPPY ABOUT IT. THEY’RE WRONG. I AND I ALONE AM CAPABLE OF JUDGING A PENIS TO BE ACCEPTABLE OR UNACCEPTABLE. DID YOU JUST CALL ME A NAZI?
[/batshit insane mode]

Aw, jeez, must have misinterpreted what he said. Sorry.

Don’t automatically get the kid circumcised. There are reasons for it, but none of them seem that strong, at least to me.

I just said my son was uncircumcised, and that it wasn’t a big deal either way, I was fine with the fact that Ginger hadn’t had it done, and wasn’t going to suggest that it be done after we married.

As for this kid, no, we’re not going to automatically get it circumcised, but we were talking about it yesterday in the context of this thread, and I said that I am a bit more likely to favor it now, after the reading and reasearch I’ve done in the last week or so, then before.

I’m sure catsix hasn’t helped you see her point of view.

[batshit insane mode]
YOU’RE A TERRIBLE PERSON WHO WANTS TO TEAR AWAY THE MOST VALUABLE POSSESSION OF YOUR SON. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO ANYTHING TO HIM WHATSOEVER. EVERYTHING IS HIS OWN DECISION TO MAKE. ONLY UNCIRCUMCISED PENISES ARE ACCEPTABLE. I KNOW THIS EVEN THOUGH I DON’T HAVE A PENIS OF MY OWN. ARE YOU CALLING ME A NAZI?
[/batshit insane mode]

Where did I say that all violations of the law are ‘fucked up obsessions’? I did say that doing so in order to cut part of the body off is, but not all violations of the law.

Guess it’s easier to call me crazy if you add to what I said?

Let’s see. You called the Jewish practice of circumcision a “fucked up obsession”. When DocCathode called you on it, you stated that no, that’s not what you meant. You meant that if they continue doing it after it’s legally banned, that makes it a “fucked up obsession”. What’s the difference? Violation of the law. If you can explain to me why it’s not a “fucked up obsession” before it’s illegal, and why it is after it becomes illegal, please do. The only thing I can get out of that is violation of the law indicates “fucked up obsession”. (“Fucked up obsession” was your words, by the way.)

ARE YOU CALLING ME A NAZI?

You’re one to talk.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Yawn.

You’re just being a dick.

You know, catsix, I’ve tried. Even when you are at your worst, I have taken the time to respond to what you’ve said in a logical way before I called you names. Funny how you skip right to the name-calling - I guess it’s because you don’t have anything to say. Your only response to others’ points has been to repeat the same arguments over and over and to act like a martyr. You refuse to respond to any of the (many) reasoned points that are addressed to you. It took about four tries by yosemite to get you to respond, even when she called your name personally. I guess you were too busy sulking and reveling in your moral authority. Your only ‘arguments’ consist of twisting the words of others and denying what you’ve said before.

Fine. You want to be a close-minded, dull-witted, moralistic martyr, it’s your call. You’re a willfully ignorant, batshit-insane moron. Hopefully, the other people in this thread are still here because from now on, no matter how you twist my words, I’m not responding to you.

You know, I just wanted to point out that the title of this thread is “Circumsion debate - why the obsession?” and it has now been pushed to 428 posts.

Thank you.

The irony was not lost on me either. :wink:

Yup. Right to it. After 9 pages. Sure thing.

Would you mind taking a moment to explain what facts in particular worked to change your opinion?

If there is no religious background for this, why would you even considre this? I see no reason at all (the more since he can always have it done when he wants it.) I just can’t understand the strange focussing on this in the US. Really.

Salaam. A

I’m also curious as to why you plan to have WeirdBabyoftheNorth circumcised.

Is it even covered by your health insurance?

Hey guys? How does

[quote=ME!and I said that I am a bit more likely to favor it now[/quote]

indicate that I have already decided to circumcize the child? Nothing from the anti side has swayed me one tiny bit, but some of the medical evidence has made me think.

Think

Consider

Weigh the pluses and minuses

I haven’t reached any decision yet, but I’ve moved from “I see no reason to do it” towards “neutral on the subject”.

Funniest thing i’ve read all weekend. Thanks! :slight_smile:

Working link

Well, my doctor used a topical anesthetic. I would hope that most parents would insist upon it. I didn’t have to, he brought it up and explained that part before I even had a chance to get to that question.
As to the description of your trials with your ob/gyn, IMHO, doctors are just like every other profession, there are good ones and bad ones. But that doesn’t seem to have a whole lot of bearing on the discussion. People and kids can be hurt by doctors who are careless or not empathetic. To me, and again, not dissing you, just MHO, the parents should be making sure that those bases are covered whatEVER procedures their children might be undergoing. So that, the chance that the doctor might be one who doesn’t use anesthetic, isn’t really as much an argument against circumcision, as one against careless doctors and parents/patients that don’t make sure that their doctor treats them with involved and respectful care.

Quote:
Yeah, catsix, because that’s exactly what I meant.

He didn’t “bring it up”. I did, in answer to your insistance that other things parent do to/for their children aren’t as easily avoided as circumcision. But you seem to have ignored that post, which WAS by the by, in answer to a direct question to me, from you.

And my example of the davidians wasn’t to say that they were doing the right thing. IF you’d read my post, you’d have seen that. It was an example of how there are many things, much worse, and much MORE avoidable than having a boy baby circumcised.

Quote:
After all, it’s not as though we could have considered this reasoning, and rejected it, and explained our reasons clearly!

Clear reasons have been provided, in droves. They are reasons you don’t agree with, which is fine. That doesn’t make them unclear or even invalid, it just makes them reasons that YOU don’t happen to agree with.

Quote:
Excalibre said:
Funny how you skip right to the name-calling -

Nope, he the UNCIRCUMCISED by the way, has the right of it. You started out namecalling, by saying people who choose this have a “sick fucking obsession” and other insults, pretty much right off the get-go.

And if you’ll notice, where Excalibre also pointed out that others in this thread have disagreed with the more “pro” side, and have NOT had as much trouble as you.

And if you dont’ think that you’ve had people give you grief on your posting/argument/debating styles “very much” then you’re not paying attention to what they’re saying to you in this, and other threads.