This exactly. I grew up with 4 bros who never had to clean a bathroom, wimmens work doncha know. They never even aimed, bastards. I married a guy who sits.
We are both appalled by visitors who leave the seat up.
No, I don’t mind. And like other people have said, how would I know whether she’d had SRS surgery or not?
Years ago, before I’d put any thought at all into the implications of being transgender, I was in the queue for a pub ladies’ room with someone who was either a trans woman or a male cross-dresser. I’ll be honest, I was kind of taken aback. I didn’t have a problem with it, but I did think it was odd that this person with a clearly male body was going into the ladies’, specially when there was a queue for the ladies’ and none for the men’s. Over the last few years, though - and partly from reading this board - I’ve got a few inklings of what being transgender actually means. It makes sense, in every way, for a trans woman presenting as female to use the women’s bathroom.
Cis is the opposite of trans.
Obviously both types of women are women, but I think it helps clarify the discussion. Otherwise it would be, “Women, do you mind if women use the women’s room?” which is a little confusing.
If the trans woman is going to use the women’s restroom, she should use the restroom as a woman, not as a female impersonator who didn’t want to take off his costume. It shouldn’t be obvious to anyone outside the stall that there is someone with a functioning penis in the women’s rest room.
The abuse happens as they are entering, exiting and using the sink in the women’s room. It’s not like they are sitting on the throne with the door open. It’s that not all transwomen pass.
Is this clear?
Oh, and I forgot, I don’t care.
Over the years I have known several transfolk, in varying stages of transition. I know I can’t be there for them 24/7, but I would hope and pray that every one of them know that if they were ever out with me in public and had this concern, that they could pull the “heading to the powder room, wanna come with?” thing and I’d have their back. Even though I, as a cis woman, HATE the group restroom trip. 
Put me in the “don’t care” category. The college I went to for undergrad had almost all unisex bathrooms, and I never thought twice about it.
Well, only if you define ‘woman” as “People who identify as a woman” which is not the generally accepted nor legal definition. I mean, I have no issue here, but let’s not invent new terms or stretch definitions to make a point. I mean, how about a very butch female who likes pegging men? Or a male who identifies as a female but has no intention of ever having the procedure? You seem to be defining ‘woman” here as a matter of intent. :dubious:
“women : do you have a problem with trans women using the women’s bathroom, even before they’ve had SRS (sexual reassignment surgery; aka having the penis built into a vulva/vagina). “
No one is doing DNA tests at the restroom door. If the individual is truly a woman in their soul I find it absolutely impossible to believe they would not put the effort into being able to appear as a woman for the cursory glance to ascertain their gender that someone walking by as they enter, exit or use the sink in the women’s room is going to make.
Thank you for posting this. I’m not sure the people (mainly men; why is that?) who don’t want trans women in the ladies room really understand how perilous this actually is. Like I said, we seem to spend an awful lot of time worrying over the “what-ifs” that never happen, and comparatively little on the problems that actually exist.
The issue with this is that, even trans women who live full time as their preferred gender may not always pass. That’s the central question of the poll: Do cisgender women have an issue with a trans woman who hasn’t had SRS and may be identifiable as trans using the women’s bathroom?
It is, however, the correct definition.
Both of those examples are women. One of them is cisgendered, the other is transgendered.
See? Not at all hard.
If an individual transitions as an adult, it is a very time-consuming process to overcome the effects of testosterone. Hormone therapy can easily take a couple years. So in the early months, or even the first year or two, a trans woman can put a great deal of effort into appearing as a woman, but still not always easily pass as one.
To expect such an individual, who is trying very hard to present as a woman, to either use the men’s room or just hold it in, is crazy and cruel.
It’s the definition I, and everyone I know generally accepts. Also, legally, a trans* person can get ID in their preferred gender, and even get their birth certificate changed.
So, yeah. I think that’s a good definition.
I didn’t invent any terms, and I’m not stretching any definitions. In my world a woman is someone who claims to be and lives as a woman. Where I live, no one is checking genitalia on the sidewalk. I don’t know where you are though, so maybe it’s different there.
She’s a woman.
If she says she’s a woman and lives as a woman, she’s a woman.
Trans women are women, no matter what their genitalia looks like. It isn’t about intent, it’s about recognizing that the mind is more important than the body in these matters.
You are a saint for doing that.
Huh? So yes, sometimes you can tell that the person wasn’t born biologically a female, but so? A transgender woman who enters a women’s restroom isn’t a “pervert.” We’re not talking some dude in a wig who’s there to creep on ladies. *That *is a pervert. We’re talking someone who clearly identifies and presents as a woman. I’d be cool with that.
And obviously I wouldn’t have a problem if I couldn’t tell because, you know, I wouldn’t be able to tell.
Are you kidding?
OMG you live a very sheltered life. I’m either envious or sorry for you.
No problems here. Why would I care? She’s a woman, period.
This reminds me of another issue with this, which is cis women who present as masculine, either by choice or because of hormone issues. I’ve known a couple women who had PCOS who grew facial hair. Like, a lot of it. I’ve known cis women who were extremely butch (and no, they weren’t all lesbians) and didn’t immediately present as female when you met them. What about them? Where are they supposed to pee? Do they have to show you their naturally born vaginas before they can use the fucking toilet?
I also had the great pleasure a few weeks ago to meet a young woman about a week into her transition, and I swear to you I had no idea until she told me. None. She could have walked into a thousand women’s restrooms, and no one would have batted an eyelash. Should she have to out herself everywhere she goes and use men’s room, despite passing as female, just because she still has a penis? WHY???
Once again no one is expecting someone to clear a hormone secretion test to pass through the restroom door. Most women don’t spend even minutes scoping out the other women in the restroom and studying every little detail of their appearnce as long as those individuals aren’t making threatening or bizarre gestures. It’s often incredibly easy it for many heterosexual men to appear as passable women, so I can’t understand how this is so difficult for someone who believes they are female not to appear as a passable one for as brief of scrutiny as they are going to get in most public restrooms.
Yeah, I think there’s a little confusion here. What I meant was not, “Have you ever seen a trans woman who retained masculine traits and you could tell she was trans?” because, duh. That happens. What I meant was, “Have you ever seen a man try and use the women’s room by claiming he ‘felt like a woman’ that day?” which I won’t say never happens, but I’ve never seen it, nor have I ever met anyone who’s seen it. I suspect it’s an urban legend.