Yes, but type “CIS” into Google. “cis scum” is one of the common suggested searches. Also the “Talk” page on wiki makes it clear “Clearly, this term is considered a derogatory term or a slur …”.
So, even if it’s not meant as a slur, it could be like “Negro”. Is “Negro” a derogatory term? No, but many Blacks would feel better if you didn’t use it.
I’d have no problem with it at all.
No.
And that’s not to mention all your other dismissive, derailing posts in the thread.
You say you just don’t like labels, but it seems like something more sinister to me. Yet when you’re called on it, you retreat back into JAQing off.
Cis and trans are not unnecessary labels in this discussion. They provide clarity. If you were being honest, and that was all you needed to know, I trust you’ll stop trying to hijack the thread now. Thanks.
eta: I see my faith was misplaced…
I’m sorry, but no. Cis or trans are terms commonly used in academic literature or among laypeople using more precise language that is equally inclusive to the groups being discussed.
Since this is IMHO, I’ll go ahead and share mine: anyone who is seriously offended by the use of cis can not get past their own privilege. Cis people are not persecuted and marginalized by virtue of being cis. Trans people ARE marginalized and persecuted by virtue of being trans. Comparing black people to cis people is not a valid comparison. Black people are a historically marginalized group, cis people are not. Even if someone is using cis as a derogatory slur, it does not carry the same power of marginalization as someone using trans as a derogatory slur.
???
Not for me. Google gave me four suggested searches: cisco, cision, cisgender, and cisco connect.
According to Google, this is where the search terms come from: “As you type, autocomplete predicts and displays queries to choose from. The search queries that you see as part of autocomplete are a reflection of the search activity of all web users and the content of web pages indexed by Google. If you’re signed in to your Google Account and have Web History enabled, you might also see search queries from relevant searches that you’ve done in the past.”
I don’t think I have ever searched for any of the four terms that Google gave me, for whatever that’s worth.
In my googling I got cis, cisgender and cisco. No scum. Sorry. (I’ve never searched for any of those things either.)
If you type the space after cis, you get cis scum.
“Die cis scum” is a meme that originated with a very angry blogger who has been attacked and beaten multiple times. I get the anger. I don’t agree with the language, and I don’t agree with holding an entire group of people responsible for the actions of a few, but I get the anger.
In order to get “cis scum” on google I have to type “cis s”. I am not that invested in this hijack really but I just don’t get why the insistence on cis as derogatory.
WhyNot, are you saying this blogger was a transgendered person who was attacked and beaten multiple times by cis people? If that’s the reason for the anger, then it’s understandable. But then it doesn’t make cis a slur, any more than when a woman who’s been raped says “die fucking men” makes men a slur. Does it?
Yes, and I agree, and so do lots of transgender bloggers. There’s even a Venn diagram going around, that’s got “cis” on one circle, “scum” on the other, and the overlap is “cis scum”. …the implication being that if you’re cis but not scum, they’re not talking about you and you should unbunch your panties.
I agree, but I’d initially claimed that cis wasn’t used derogatorily (and I really believed that) and then I realized I was wrong. So, rather than have someone point it out later and make me look like a liar, I thought I’d fess up and admit, yeah, apparently it is used as (part of) a slur, sometimes.
I am not offended by the term “Die Cis Scum”. I mean, I don’t think it’s the best pr move, but it doesn’t hurt my feelings. I assume they aren’t talking about me. I’ve had girlfriends say “Men are scum” after a breakup, and while normally I call that kind of stuff out, sometimes when you’ve been hurt you have to vent.
At any rate, no one in this thread is using in in a derogatory manner. It’s just an equitable way to differentiate between two groups.
“Commonly” being in the last decade. There’s also thousands of Scientific papers that use the term “Negroid” but it still is offensive to many.
Yeah, I get it. If you’re not a member of a minority you can’t be offended.:rolleyes:
Google’s auto-suggested search and “Talk” on Wiki are the evidence you’re going by?
I think cis-women and trans-women can all agree that a couple of weirdly offended guys on a message board speak only for themselves.
As for me, I think I’ve noticed trans-women a few times in restrooms and I’ve had no issue with it. There may have been times I’ve done a double take, but I’ve also done double takes with women I presume are cis.
I would think it extremely unfair to judge someone’s fitness to be in my space based on physical characteristics that they don’t even identify with. I want the restroom to be a safe space for all women.
I get it, it’s a common phenomenon in these transgender debates for someone “just askin’ questions” to focus on an insignificant point, manufacture Great Offense over the insignificant point, and then distract everyone with it so the primary message won’t be debated any more. I’ve seen it for 13 years on here. Like when I quoted a trans feminist who referred to her own Y chromosome derogatorily, and suddenly a couple of people hijacked the thread to claim based on that all trans people hate men, people with Y chromosomes, people with chromosomes, the letter “Y”, chrome wheels…
Because basically, maledictions about Trans Toilet Terrorism, panicking over SRS, and focusing on minutiae, transphobes got nothin’.
Cis is currently used in academic papers from both liberal and conservative sources, and outside of the typical random angry outliers on the net and otherwise it’s not used as an insult. I won’t even dispute this any more.
You know, I never said I was offended. Other claimed they were. Some here dismissed them, so I showed their concerns had some merit.
Look, like I said, I am 100% behind unisex bathrooms. We spend too much time arguing about gender. Just get in, do your business, and get out.
This thread is the first time I ever heard the term, so I don’t really care - except I don’t like labels. Rather than trans, cis, gay, straight, heesh, bi, etc, why not just “people”? Are all Trans women the same? Do we need to label them? Can’t we all just get along?
There are already laws against assault. And I think someone who is going to assault a trans person is not likely to back off just because they choose the “correct” bathroom. I think most McDonalds bathrooms are single user anyway. I think the issue there is just hatred, not etiquette or awkwardness.
There is of course an etiquette/awkwardness issue, too, but I’m not sure there is any real solution other than education and basic kindness. I’d love to see a world with unisex bathrooms and locker rooms, but we’re not quite there yet, so do the best you can, and bring a buddy when possible.
I can see there being an issue with someone being perceived as a man dressing up as a woman to get perverted access to a private space. That’s a tough one. In the balance between cis women feeling safe from harm and a trans person wanting to feel included, I might side with the cis women. Depends on how well you can pass. There should be compassion on both sides, and pragmatism.
You mean the cis women who overwhelmingly don’t have a problem with it? Those cis women?
This thread polling women has more men saying there’s a problem than women saying there’s a problem.
Are you saying you object to the term “Negroid” no longer being in use? How do you feel about “Caucasoid” no longer being in use? Perhaps, more precise descriptors with less offensive connotation are more inclusive which better conveys the intended message, since that is the point of communication after all. In technical writing language matters.
Here, perhaps this can help you:
I object to the use of any derogatory language that maligns a person or an entire group, regardless. But the power behind a slur aimed at a marginalized group is not the same as one aimed at the majority group *who generally control or influence institutional power structures. *
That doesn’t mean members of non-minority group can’t be offended, but can you explain your offense when the context of discussion is not even about you? Ironically, it seems the only people who can’t refrain from posting their objections to the cisgender label is the cis-men in this thread (in a thread about cis and trans women bathroom preferences - where it is clearly pertinent). I wonder why that is?
Respectfully, if you side with the cis women, then you consign the transwoman to the men’s room, while dressed female.
Should I post again what typically happens to the dressed transwoman in the men’s room? I really don’t like to; it makes me sick to have seen the bruises, the tears from the cruel taunts and threats, sling from the broken collarbone or the cast on the broken arm. Or the police report of the sexual assault. Or sure, in genteel places, or places like a Hamburger Mary’s no one cares, but most other places…OMG. I’ve witnessed it first-hand.
But on the other hand, a non-transwoman might feel uncomfortable.
At least, with a couple notable exceptions, the worst which happens in the women’s room is a few women gripe and mutter and may call the manager of the establishment.
This is really amazing. I agree 99.99% and support this 100%, I am in favor of LGBT equality, Gay Marriage, Equal rights & rites for all, uni-sex toilets, etc … but then I say I don’t really care for one minor term. Suddenly, I am THE ENEMY, a hidden transphobe, a card carrying member of the Westboroh Baptist Church. :rolleyes: