Cis Women- Do you have an issue with trans women who've not had SRS in the women's room?

[miss_elizabeth]

@Molesworth_2

The cis prefix is IMHO a way of dismissing the views of those who don’t share one’s views about gender.

No, it isn’t. I don’t know how you came up with this theory, or what you are confusing cis with, but it’s wrong. Cis is just a technical word to differentiate between women who were identified at birth (cis) and women who had to transition later (trans). That’s it.

Gender is indeed a rather slippery and complex matter. I see the use of the cis prefix as derisory shaming language by which SJWs arrogantly claim the understanding of gender as their own.

What is a SJW? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I don’t deign to speak for other people about issues of gender and sexuality. I’d appreciate it if I was given the same regard.

Well, this poll is only for cis women, but feel free to start your own. And also, it’s not really about sexuality or gender exactly; it’s just about where to pee at.

@Molesworth_2

I just don’t like being dismissed as “cisgendered”. Like that makes me less qualified to speak than anyone else.

This poll is for cis gendered (women). The only people invited to speak are cis gendered. It’s not a dismissal.

And I’m not sure I even fit in that category, even though most of the people who use that prefix in a derogatory manner towards me would stereotype me and put me in that category.

I don’t think you understand what cis means. Cis just means “not trans”, ok? If you identify as a man; in other words, if you are a man and you say so in your life AND if you were born with an unambiguous penis, then you are cis. That’s all it means. I’ve never ever ever heard cis used derogatorily. It’s rarely used at all outside discussion like this, or like, gender studies classes.

Each to their own, as long as my lived experiences are given as much credence as that of any other human being.

Unless I am remembering wrong (and if I am, I apologize) you are man, and therefore your opinion wasn’t really solicited in this thread. NOT because no one is interested in men, but because it’s a thread about ladies rooms, and you’re just not a part of that conversation. If you;’ like to start a thread about men’s rooms, please do! I didn’t feel qualified, but I am curious what the results would be.

@Molesworth_2

I’m legitimately sorry to hear that. But the actions of that tiny percentage of men who would do that has nothing to with me.

Absolutely NO ONE is trying to hold you accountable. At all. In any way.

This thread isn’t about men at all.

It’s about two different kinds of women, using the women’s room. That’s it. That’s why I didn’t ask men to participate. It’s about ladies in the ladies.

I wouldn’t ask you to answer for the worst things that a tiny percentage of women do. That would be completely unreasonable on my part.

It would. And, again, no one is asking you to answer for anything.

But I’m getting away from the question posted by the OP, so I’ll shut up now.

I appreciate this. And I hope you don’t feel I singled you out, but reading your questions I felt like you were genuinely misunderstanding some things, and I wanted to clear them up.

Cis is not an insult. To the very best of my knowledge, it’s never been used as an insult. I am cis. Most of the women posting in this thread are cis. This thread is not angry at men, or even ABOUT men. I would like to invite you to PM me if you have any other questions and you don’t want to derail the thread. I’m not an expert (far from it!!) but I’m happy to help if I can.

[miss_elizabeth]

@ZPG_Zealot

This. More women born with vaginas get beat up and raped by hetro men than any other group on the planet.

Percentage wise, this is false. Trans women get raped and beaten at rates FAR higher than cis women.

I’ll get a cite.

[miss_elizabeth]

First thing I found, and it could be better: http://www.thinkagaintraining.com/pdfs/Some%20Statistics%20on%20Sexual%20Assault%20and%20Rape.pdf (WARNING! .pdf)

An estimated 7% of men and 22% of women have been raped in their ifetime.
Statistics on trans people are sparse; one study found that 55% of FtMs and 68% of MtFs have been forced to have sex in their lifetime.

More discussion, although I obviously haven’t had time to read it fully:

Transgender Media | GLAAD

In addition to being at much higher risk for rape and violence, trans women can expect to be treated even worse then cis women by the judicial system as well.

Man Cleared Of Rape Because Victim Had A Penis

Do cis women have it bad out there? Oh, hell yes. But there’s no denying trans women have it far worse.

[llcoolbj77]

I played soccer competetively growing up, in college and beyond… and frequent the gym on a daily basis.

To all Transwomen: Welcome to the ladies room!

My only request: Please get, at least, partially dressed before striking up a conversation. This goes for every single person in the locker room. In college, we had a girl on the lacrosse team who was a bit of an exhibitionist. (she is now a stripper). She would walk around completely naked, chatting away… it was disconcerting.

[Nava]

Molesworth 2, the prefix “trans” means “across” or “opposite” - when speaking of gender or of sex, it refers to people whose apparent-sex-at-birth and internal gender are opposite.

“Cis” means “on the same side”, “the same”. When speaking of gender, it refers to people whose apparent-sex-at-birth and internal gender are the same.

The two prefixes are ancient; they are used constantly in chemistry to describe the geometric configuration of molecules. Ever heard of cis-platinum? It was one of the first anti-cancer medications.

What is offensive about using a perfectly cromulent, already-extant prefix, to abbreviate that train-long bunch of words into a single one? Do you also think that we should refer to our telephones as our “machines to speak at a distance”?

[Green_Bean]

Could somebody please tell me how to pronounce “cis?” I’ve only seen it in print. Thanks.

@Molesworth_2

I see the use of the cis prefix as derisory shaming language by which SJWs arrogantly claim the understanding of gender as their own.

And could somebody please translate the second part of this this into plain English for me? What on earth is an SJW?

p.s. The idea that “cis” is derogatory is absurd.

[WhyNot]

@Una_Persson

Apropos of the general discussion, cis is no more disrespectful than trans, it’s just unusual and somewhat awkward. I use it ONLY in written form; in public, we call you “g-girls” or “g-guys”. Which is probably not much better…

What’s “g-” stand for, anything?

@Green_Bean

Could somebody please tell me how to pronounce “cis?” I’ve only seen it in print. Thanks.

Sis, like the first syllable of sister.

[miss_elizabeth]

@Green_Bean

Could somebody please tell me how to pronounce “cis?” I’ve only seen it in print. Thanks.

Haha me too. Glad to know I was pronouncing it right in my head.

And could somebody please translate the second part of this this into plain English for me? What on earth is an SJW?

p.s. The idea that “cis” is derogatory is absurd.

I went ahead and googled it (shoulda done that first, I know) and it appears to mean “Social Justice Warrior”. It’s supposed to be derogatory, apparently. :rolleyes:

[EverwonderWhy]

@Green_Bean

Could somebody please tell me how to pronounce “cis?” I’ve only seen it in print. Thanks.

sis, like in sister.

The only reference that I can possibly think of where cisgender could potentially be interpreted as derogatory is by people who find the concept of privilege derogatory. Like, cisgendered, heterosexual, Christian-white-male-privilege.

Of course, I don’t consider cisgender or the concept of privilege to be derogatory, but I suspect that is what Molesworth may be referring too.

I also could care less about sharing the bathroom or the lockerroom with pre-op or post-op transwomen. It wouldn’t even register as a blip on my radar.

[Mighty_Girl]

@Anaamika

I did not take it as being dismissive to be called cis. Look, nearly all of the time I go around and people think I am a woman, they know I am a woman, I never have that problem, I’m not in a situation where anyone has to differentiate, so no one has to call me cis.

[snip]

So here is at least one woman who isn’t offended at being called cis.

My thoughts exactly. I am very obvious a cis woman. No possible confusion, and I am not in the least offended by what is a very neutral description for the purpose of limited discussions.

@Miller

Do you have any evidence at all for this claim? What, exactly, is derisory about it? Why should someone described as “cis gendered” feel shame about being described that way? Can you give an example of someone using “cis” as an insult? I’ve never seen that, and am not entirely sure how it would even work.

“You cis women, with your un-upgraded genitalia. I fart in your general direction!”.

Like that?

[DrDeth]

But since the vast majority of women were born that way, why not just “women” and “trans-women”?

[Una_Persson]

@WhyNot

What’s “g-” stand for, anything?

“Genetic”, which I know is not entirely accurate, but it is the “custom among my people.” Some believe it means “genuine,” except that would be insulting as well.

Labels are sometimes…sucky.

“T-girl” is “transgirl,” of course. “I-girl” has been used, and both myself and a good friend of mine who is XXY have been referred to as such.

[miss_elizabeth]

While I was looking for stats on the abuse trans women face, I found a site that referenced another site called “Die Cis Scum!”. Apparently it’s a phrase people use on Tumblr? I’ve never seen it, but googling it got some hits.

So, I stand corrected. Cis is sometimes used derogatorily. But I assure everyone, I didn’t mean it that way.

reference: http://dearcispeople.tumblr.com/post/24127119457/if-youre-more-offended-by-die-cis-scum-than-by

[miss_elizabeth]

@DrDeth

But since the vast majority of women were born that way, why not just “women” and “trans-women”?

Can you honestly not understand why it’s rude to have a discussion and refer to cis women as “women” and trans women as “trans women”? You don’t see how that would make someone feel left out, or not like a “real” woman?

Trans women ARE women. It’s exclusionary to use the term and not include them.

[miss_elizabeth]

@DrDeth

But since the vast majority of women were born that way, why not just “women” and “trans-women”?

May I ask why the use of the term cis upsets you so much? You keep asking about it, even after it’s been explained, and frankly I find it offensive. Why does it bother you?

[eclectic_wench]

@Una_Persson

As I’ve tried to say repeatedly, the rule of transness is you ONLY use the restroom as you are presenting or are legally registered as. This means that even if you are on full hormones etc., if you’re dressed male and don’t have a male ID, then you do NOT go into the women’s room. This is a convention which few transsexual women violate, and if and when it happens, it’s not just cis-women who are unhappy…they get talked to, about, or even shunned by the trans community. Among many reasons, we simply do not want the negative publicity. But more than anything else, it’s just gauche.

Although there is no Trans Pope in Denmark who issues these bulls, it’s a general convention which to my knowledge is used world-wide.

I know some transgender people and genderqueer people use whatever damn restroom they want, regardless of how they are dressed. I don’t agree with that.

And as I’ve tried to say repeatedly, in my post about how I’d be wary of a guy walking into the women’s bathroom because of the violation of social boundaries, I wasn’t talking about trans women. I was talking about men. I was responding to a post from DrDeth asking why anyone wouldn’t be bothered by a trans woman using the ladies’ but would be bothered by a man. It was a sidetrack off the original discussion.

Trans women presenting as women aren’t violating any boundary by using the women’s bathroom. A man walking into the women’s bathroom (without an obvious reason) is deliberately making it clear that he doesn’t care about that boundary, which makes him worth being wary of.

[Mighty_Girl]

@miss_elizabeth

While I was looking for stats on the abuse trans women face, I found a site that referenced another site called “Die Cis Scum!”. Apparently it’s a phrase people use on Tumblr? I’ve never seen it, but googling it got some hits.

So, I stand corrected. Cis is sometimes used derogatorily. But I assure everyone, I didn’t mean it that way.

reference: http://dearcispeople.tumblr.com/post/24127119457/if-youre-more-offended-by-die-cis-scum-than-by

Still not offended. Maybe I should have my offend-o-meter checked. Be right back…

[eclectic_wench]

@DrDeth

But since the vast majority of women were born that way, why not just “women” and “trans-women”?

In a discussion like this, for clarity. In this context, if you use ‘women’ both to mean ‘women who were born in female bodies’ and to mean ‘all women’, then a sentence like ‘Women should use the women’s bathroom’ could mean either ‘Women who were born in female bodies should use the women’s bathroom’ or ‘All women including both those who were born in female bodies and those who are trans should use the women’s bathroom,’ and after like two posts no one knows what anyone’s talking about. Using ‘cis’ keeps the discussion clearer.

[DrDeth]

@miss_elizabeth

May I ask why the use of the term cis upsets you so much? You keep asking about it, even after it’s been explained, and frankly I find it offensive. Why does it bother you?

Are you confusing me with Molesworth 2? I just don’t like unnesesary labels. Once you label someone…well, you know the rest.

[Una_Persson]

@miss_elizabeth

While I was looking for stats on the abuse trans women face, I found a site that referenced another site called “Die Cis Scum!”. Apparently it’s a phrase people use on Tumblr? I’ve never seen it, but googling it got some hits.

So, I stand corrected. Cis is sometimes used derogatorily. But I assure everyone, I didn’t mean it that way.

reference: http://dearcispeople.tumblr.com/post/24127119457/if-youre-more-offended-by-die-cis-scum-than-by

If you search you can find people using any word derogatorily. It doesn’t change the point that it’s not a derogatory expression and you were right from the start.