There is no such thing as “politeness and civility” on SDMB. There is only different sets of rules for different sections of the website.
So, let’s say you are in GD and you can’t call someone stupid and you can’t say their comment is stupid but you can say it is absolutely devoid of intellectual merit or validity.
I get it. This is a clubhouse. Most of you have been here for 15+ years and you like to run things the way you want them run, the way you prefer. That is fine.
What bothers me is when one of your own moderators defends himself for insulting me by saying “I was talking about your comments”… then insults me again and I respond by saying only a hypocritical mean spirited person hides behind “the rules”… and then — I — am the one that a moderator gives (not a warning) but correction too.
You can follow the whole thing right here. 114, 117, 142, 189, 202
The most relevant points:
My problem is not with TomnDebb or Miller of the comment Engineer Computer Geek. Let me rephrase that, I am not contesting any specific comment or any specific poster or moderator. I am talking about the overall atmosphere of this board.
Very Strong Disclaimer: There are lots of posters here who never engage in these snarky, rude, condescending remarks that so many other posters seem to descend into.
In closing, I think this place is dysfunctional cesspool of infighting, negativity and cynicism. The fact that you have “rules” for different sections of the web page is disingenuous. Either you are dedicated to politeness and civility, to the don’t be a jerk rule, or you are not.
For most people here, well, at least enough to make it seem like it is most people, there is no difference between Jerry Springer and SDMB. Well, the only difference is that on SDMB there is more articulate vocabulary and more precise use of logic… but the basic mudslinging and condescension is essentially the same.
So you are frustrated. Why do you keep coming back to become more frustrated? Me, I never (almost never) venture into GD because I don’t enjoy being either frustrated or enraged. As for other kinds of snark in other fora, that’s what I’m here for!
I’m unemployed, have too much time on my hands and I’m bored. Also… Facebook and twitter and other more modern forms of social media have little appeal to me.
Is this a complaint about the board in general or how a mod treated you?
If it’s the former, I think we all know that forums have specific rules. I doubt that changes any time soon. If it’s the latter, then maybe you need to address it in something other than a passive-aggressive manner.
Here’s the thing: the membership of this board is not monolithic in their opinion of how it should be run. Some want tighter regulation of the kind of snarky and spiteful digs you mention. Others want a freer board with more loose regulation, allowing more self-policing and less moderating. They want more freedom to snark each other.
The moderators here are trying to find a middle ground that has some type of objective rules, or at least clean lines to be drawn. The “don’t be a jerk” rule was the original rule and overall guideline, but “jerk” comes in a lot of flavors, and in order to maintain the original style of the board, some back and forth is allowed.
I don’t know that anyone thinks the rules and how they are enforced is ideal, but they are the best compromise that has been devised to still approach consistency, without making a rulebook that is longer and more complicated than a software license. The moderators are given some leeway to use their judgement rather than define everything down to a gnat’s whisker, but that also fosters complaints of bias and unfairness.
The goal is to have a place with the freedom to express disagreement strongly and make jokes, but not devolve into the nastiness of places like youtube comments.
You’ve been here for a week. Wow, you either figured TomNDebb out really quickly, or accidentally posted this under the wrong user name. :eek: :dubious:
I was hoping you’d elaborate. If your thought is that TomNDeb’s post was a bit snarky, then I might have backed up you up there, but you have to make that statement and ride with it.
I have some degree of negative comment about the comments of TomNDebb (and Miller, as well) but for the most part their comments are not that atypical or uncommon, among more “heated/critical” comments that are often made on SDMB, so, it is not worth singling out those specific comments for lengthy debate.
My complaint is the overall tone of SDMB as a whole, and, more specifically the idea that “don’t be a jerk” is not paid attention too much at all.
Also… and I admit that I am not the nicest person and that I am negative biased and cynical… I’ll make no denial of that at all. Indeed, I need to improve. But, I guess my attitude is… I really don’t like it when people hide behind rules to make snarky condescending remarks. Whatever I have to say to a person I am pretty direct. My attitude does not change much from section to section on SDMB or online vs offline.
I am trying to moderate my comments because of the “rules” in ABTM… my number #1 point is I think it speaks pretty lowly of a persons character when they hide behind rules to make insults and walk a round like some sanctified innocent person who is “just trying to combat ignorance”.
ETA: A moderator… really should be above such behavior. I guess that bothers me quite a bit too, honestly.
Tomndebb is notorious for this kind of behaviour. His MO is to stick religiously to the letter of the GD civility rules while utterly ignoring their spirit. Worse, he does it all with the kind of sanctimonious pomposity one might associate with the Pope speaking ex cathedra.
Or, as tomndebb himself might say:
Tomndebb’s…posts are notorious for this kind of…phrasing. His MO is to…craft posts which stick religiously to the letter of the GD civility rules while utterly ignoring their spirit. His…posts display the kind of sanctimonious pomposity one might associate with the…sort of posts the Pope might make if he spoke ex cathedra…in GD.
I don’t understand these types of threads. If participating in and reading threads at the SDMB is causing you so much frustration and negative feelings, the solution to those problems is so, so easy: don’t log on. Poof!. Problem solved.
Or you could go with your strengths, and with a bit of practice make posts just as snarky and condescending as the worst of them. It might be fun.
I think the rules are pretty clear, if some times unevenly applied. You can challenge and even denigrate some one’s assumptions, logic, and conclusions, but you can not insult a person’s intelligence, religion, or … DNA.
You can call a post idiotic; you can not call a poster an idiot.
I guess the rationale would be that the poster would be happy to have a logical flaw or factual error pointed out, so to do so is not really being a jerk.
Yeah, but the problem arises when you change it to “posts” in general and use over the top insulting language about it. Then it becomes clear you’re just using “posts” as a proxy for the person.
It’s exactly the bright line rule that the mods of GD say they don’t like to have.
I also sometimes write really mean things and have to tone it down. But I try to actually pull out any insults altogether and get to the bottom of what I think. (Sometimes I get too angry and fail, I admit.) I think that’s the better way to do this, not just inserting “'s posts” or “r posts” in a bunch of places and calling it a day.
But, as I’ve been told repeatedly, it’s y’all’s forum and you can do what you want. It’s not like I can’t participate in it somewhat. I just have to put my guard up and avoid the worst threads.