CLee, a word (or 500). AKA - the next JayDub pile on thread

The BBQ Pit
61

I’ll probably hate myself in the morning, but:

This statement is a god-damned lie. Furthermore, you know it’s a lie. I participated in one of the other threads with as much tolerance and respect as I could muster, but I am sick of the dishonesty.

You have already had a meaningful, honest response out of CLee, and rather well and clearly expressed. Logically, then, your statement cannot be true. I can think of at least three other reasons you might continue the rather one-sided debate: actual witnessing, credit for time spent witnessing, and a need to affirm your own identity as a JW.

This message board has had a few JWs over the years, but in general it is rather barren soil for witnessing. Intolerance for religion in general is high, and for stupid religions intolerance approaches infinity.

You already know my opinion of your religion. If Satan is active on earth, he’s holed up in the Watchtower, alternately laughing at you and masturbating as he watches your pathetic devotion to his cult.

62

And I imagine I can expect the same level of participation from you as I’ve seen here?

Why would I engage in conversation with someone who repeatedly ascribes untrue/disrespectful motives to me, and will not hear anything that says otherwise?

How could I possibly bother you with the facts when your mind is made up? You tell me CLee, would offering you something you already feel is vile, putrid, horrific garbage, really get me anywhere?

I’ll certainly engage in conversation with someone who is humble enough to accept that the views they hold just might be wrong. Someone who will set aside their preconceptions long enough to absorb a competing thought.

I take every one of your comments seriously, and I make sure that I understand them before responding. Re: jsgoddess’s poorly worded statement - she (and others) reworded it so that it was clearer. It turned out to be nothing more than a “Nuh-uh! You’re a dummy, because I only read the parts that make you look bad!”

I’ve tried to turn this around for you, and help you see the other side, and you still refuse to see things from the point of view of the person against whom you are arguing. I see your points, and I’ve addressed them, in the OP of this thread, yet you completely ignored it in favor of repeating yourself again.

You are deliberately describing an untrue perspective/position that you erroneously believe Witnesses in general hold. You then attack that untrue position.

You are creating a very good example of a straw-man argument. You will have many supporters though, as you do here, because it’s the popular position to take. Religion is derided on this forum, and many others. The members are dissected, and when we cry foul, more derision is heaped. “There’s no hatred here, what on Earth do you mean? Stop crying persecution, it’s so untrue! You can’t prove that it’s happening.” Meanwhile, you continue to call for the eradication of my faith, on baseless incorrect grounds. And then you deny it is happening. We’re children murderers, we’re civil mooches, we’re predators of the elderly, blah blah blah.

Take your anger, and recognize it for what it is. Fear that a way of living could possibly instill in it’s followers the level of devotion and faith that you can’t hardly muster in your own life. The continued existence (and growth even) of the JW’s gives plausibility to the notion that your beliefs regarding us are wrong, and that we may be living happier BECAUSE of our faith in God. BECAUSE of our following the directions of a higher power. BECAUSE of our submission to the moral authority of another.

Go to your local Kingdom Hall and see how many miserable, broken families and poor lonely senile idiots you see. Don’t try to engage me in a fight about something you’ve never even experienced for yourself.

I’m willing to wager that you’re so scared of having your mind changed, so scared of wasting the time you’d rather spend masturbating in front of the tv while texting your friends and lovers about the forbidden music that the JW’s clearly run in fear of (your words, from your post) , that you wouldn’t even give a few month’s worth of weekends to coming to our sunday meetings. Heaven forbid it! You might get brainwashed! Then you’d have to give up your favorite things! Heavens NO!!!

Or maybe it’s fear of man, that the opinion your friends and family hold of you might deteriorate, because you’re associating with “them”! Don’t let the cooties touch you. It’s contagious. :rolleyes:

I’ve been to mass, I’ve been to pentecostal sermons (for years), I’ve been to synagogue, I’ve been around. You can’t play the you-first card there.

Seriously CLee, if you lived near enough to me, and you were willing (which I doubt) I’d take you out to breakfast, show you what this terrible person you’ve made me out to be really looks like, and offer to bring you to whatever Kingdom Hall was closest to you and show you exactly the type of people you’re attributing these negative qualities to. PM me, don’t give you address of course, because you don’t want me to have swarms of JW’s drop by and love-bomb your house, but let me know what part of the world you live in. I probably can get in touch with a friend nearby.

I stand to gain NOTHING from that, or any other similar endeavor. I’m willing to do it because I believe this world is a better place with more open conversation, not less. Screw going to the GD forum and wasting my time there - you haven’t been here long enough to know the track record that “witnessing” has there.

63

Read the OP of this thread, then read CLee’s first response. You tell me if it acknowledged anything I said.

It doesn’t.

There’s no dishonesty here Drake. None. Read it for yourself, I’m sure you’ve got the time, we all do - that’s why we’re here.

64

Here is something you said earlier in this thread:

So… to summarize

  1. You believe that CLee misrepresented what you believe.
  2. CLee said “You believe that Satan is in charge of this planet”
  3. This misrepresented what you believe
  4. What you actually believe is : "Satan is in charge of this planet because the Bible says so, and we see evidence that supports it. "
    Guess what? CLee is NOT misrepresenting what you believe. CLee is REPORTING what you believe. And that is what others have also done.

You appear to be simply upset when it is baldly pointed out. You don’t accept gays because your church and bible interpretation tells you not to. Fine. But don’t get bent out of shape when it’s pointed out to you.

Sorry you don’t like that.

65

Sure it does.
[QUOTE=CLee]
I said all I had to say, no sense in repeating it.
[/QUOTE]

66

The track record is abysmal because you (and your kind) can’t control the conversation - you can’t make your trivial minor point that you think gives you a ‘win’.

<bolding mine>

Are YOU willing to listen?

I can, with one simple bible passage and the words from the watchtower (past and present) prove that the JW are ‘false prophets’ that should not be followed.

Are you willing to listen with an open heart and an ear for ‘facts’ ?

If not - shut the fuck up and move on.

67

I’m not asking you to witness to me. I’m asking you to offer your pitch to an educated audience.

Your people have been at my door numerous times, and I, like anyone else with the time to do so, can read the glurge you leave at our doors and offices around the world or we can look at it online at our convenience. I know what you believe and how your kind behave and what your faith requires you to do. It isn’t a mystery; you shove your beliefs in our faces at every opportunity.

My anger is at the senseless deaths you inflict on those incapable of making informed, unpressured decisions. My anger is at the predatory behavior you exert on the lonely and ill. My anger is at the nuisance you create by entering my property unbidden, and how you ignore polite requests to go away.

I’ve seen those miserable broken families and lonely idiots at my front door and at work. My best friend has seen disfellowshipped JWs in her practice as a family counselor. Very few second generation Witnesses remain lifelong members. Many flee at first opportunity.

There isn’t a single chance I’d break bread with anyone who admits to shunning your deliberately isolated, awkward “family” members. Or anyone who would allow a child to die for lack of a simple medical procedure. Nor would I dine with anyone rude enough to make a habit of showing up at the doors of strangers unbidden. I’ve no interest in making friends with the likes of you. Love isn’t what your people sell, it’s fear and shame by the bucketload.

Just as we all thought, you refuse to offer your pitch to an informed audience, preferring to stick to easier marks.

68

This is creepy. I have no idea how you thought you were coming across, but how you are actually coming across is: creepy.

69

Damn, you’re stupid. Because Bible?

70

oh, and Uber_the_Goober - it won’t be because you got a few dates wrong…

71

FYI: you just wrote a 797 word post explaining to someone why you won’t engage in a conversation with them. I think that might qualify as conversing, but that’s just me.

72

And invited me to lunch, too. But won’t Witness to me. How unChristlike.

73

He claimed he would stop engaging with anyone who called him a bigot, but he wasn’t stop talking to me. Maybe he has a writing comprehension problem.

74

Why is everyone in this thread talking about masturbation like it’s a bad thing?

75

Speak on then. Out with your bombshell revelation. I’m all eyes. I always am.

76

I’ll witness to the fact that it hasn’t stopped you evil, murderous SOBs before.

77

Again, cherry picking. Just because I mentioned one item which was in agreement doesn’t exclude the other things I mentioned…did you bother to read the rest of that post? Try it.

78

Only the one guy is saying that. Most of us are well-adjusted and mentally fit and appreciative of the sex drive that nature (or God, whatever floats your bobber) gave us. Threatening teenagers with hell for masturbating is nearly as cruel as the other practices. I don’t know how many Witnesses there are in the United States, but if they are conditioned to feel shame every time it pops up, I’m not sure how they manage to procreate.

79

Uber, do you truly believe that Satan is in charge of this beautiful world?

Uber, have you practiced shunning and will you in the future?

Uber, do you encourage new members to reduce or avoid mingling with non Jws, including their own family members who decline conversion?

Uber, have you or do you plan to discourage your child from obtaining a higher education?

Uber, would you allow your injured child to die if a transfusion could save her life?

80

You mean the part where you agree that you only pay taxes, saying it’s all that is required?

You mean the part where you agree that you push propaganda but say it has a good motive?

You mean the part where you don’t deny going after the elderly but say she is just spinning it?

And taking other posts:

You mean the part where you say shunning works?

You mean the part where you say that of course you have a problem with gays?

You mean the part where you say a child would be denied heaven if they are tainted with blood and that life isn’t as important as that?
Seriously, you’re a splitter, right? Because this is a level of incompetence rarely seen outside of a Michele Bachmann speech.