Cleveland - mistake on the lake?

Is Cleveland considered one of the worst cities,the “mistake on the lake”? or
Has its reputation improved a lot over the past two decades?

Cleveland rocks. Errr…

Having just moved from Cleveland (area) to Boston (area) I find tha it is a city of many great qualities. Cheap rent notwithstanding…

:rolleyes: I find, in my experience, that people who use the phrase “Mistake on the Lake” are people who often reference a 30-year old river fire. It’s like dissing Chicago because of the Great Fire, or something.

Anyhow, I spent most of my life – 19 years – in the Greater Cleveland area (I just moved to Virginia last June), and I can tell you personally, it has several things to offer economically, recreationally and culturally:

–A world-class art museum, with no admission charge
–One of the best symphony orchestras in the world
–It’s one of the few cities with 3 major sports teams
–The Rock and ROll Hall of Fame. On second thought, skip that
–Several major companies are headquartered there, including Eaton Corp., TRW, American Greetings, Parker Hannifin, and KeyBank Corp.
–Thriving arts communities on the East and West sides
–A downtown theater district that has experienced a great renaissance

Now, like any major city, Cleveland is not without its problems. The economic revival that was to be predicated on the success of the Gateway Complex has been overrated, as major economists will tell you the economic effects of building sports stadiums are fleeting. The schools are in major trouble. The neighborhoods are experiencing problems due to the mayor concentrating development in the downtown area to attract rich vacationers and shoppers. But these problems are hardly unique to Cleveland.

Anyone who visits Cleveland will not find themselves with a lack of things to do. It’s a great place, in my experience, both to live and to visit.


Don’t forget Case Western Reserve University!

I’m sure you can find bad things about most big cities.
Wasn’t Baltimore a few years back, having the highest rate of vd?
I’m sure I heard this.
The mayor even went on Leno to make jokes about it.
I’ll be leaving soon, and with no regrets.

Is this really a Great Debate?

Seems more like a trollish IMHO to me…

Can you really consider the Cavs a major sports team? :smiley:

Eh, PL, in terms of municipal embarassment, it’s probably more accurate to compare dissing Cleveland because of the Burning River to dissing Chicago because of the 1968 Democratic Convention.

Berdollos, your OP puzzles me. Do you actually have something to debate, or are you just trying to pick a fight about Cleveland?

If it’s meant to be a serious debate, what exactly are you proposing? “Resolved: that Cleveland be declared an official Civic Mistake, and that it be razed to the ground”? Or what?


P.S. **Vanilla, ** sorry but I missed the “leaving soon” thing. Is that a Baltimore joke?

I visited Cleveland for the first (and only) time for several days this last summer to attend my friend’s wedding, and found it very nice. I’m sure it has the problems all big cities do, but overall, my impression was a positive one.

My wife and I spent our last anniversary in Cleveland.
We had a great time. The Rock and Roll HofF was quite nice and the Flats are a great place to hang out. My wife pointed out how much cleaner the city looked than Pittsburgh. And Pittsburgher’s don’t find it easy to say something nice about Cleveland.

Just my 2sense

Duck Duck: No, I’m leavin Cleveland soon, not Baltimore!


Come on, pl. You’ve got to admit that there’s a bit of difference between a fire that burns wooden structures on land, and one that actually burns on the surface of a lake.

Few? Let’s count them up:

Four major sports teams: Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Phoenix, Denver, Miami, Philadelphia, Los Angeles (counting the Clippers, although I can see arguing that they’re not major leage), New York, Atlanta, Boston (if you count the “New England” Patriots), Dallas (if you count the Texas Rangers in Arlington) anf Toronto (if you count the CFL Argonauts, since there’s no NFL teams in Canada at all).

Three major sports teams: In addition to Cleveland, there’s Seattle, Pittsburgh, Oakland (counting the “Golden State” Warriors), Washington DC, Tampa Bay, Charlotte (counting the “Carolina” Panthers and Hurricanes), St. Louis, Montreal (counting the CFL Alouettes), New Jersey (counting the “New York” football teams, which play there…New York has four major league teams without them) and Houston (once the NFL’s expansion Texans hit the gridiron).

So, while Cleveland is clearly a major league city, I certainly don’t think three major league sports teams gives it any sort of “elite” rank.

*Originally posted by cmkeller *

Four major sports teams: …New York[/quote

Whaddya mean, only “four?”

New York Yankees
New York Mets
New York Giants
New York Jets
New York Knicks
New York Rangers
New York Islanders

And we still have to give props to the teams which play in the New York Tri-State area, which include:

New Jersey Nets
New Jersey Devils

I don’t know how “major” you call them, but we also have the NY/NJ MetroStars (MLS), the New York/New Jersey Hitmen (XFL) and the New York Saints (MLL), all professional teams in professional leagues.

In fact, since you have the Staten Island Yankees (Single A Yankee minor league team), NYC might be the only city with both a major league and minor league baseball team.

In addition, New York has one of the four Grand Slam tennis events, one of the three Triple Crown horse racing events, and Madison Square Garden is a mecca for college basketball, which is also the second home for one of the winningest college hoops programs in NCAA history, the St. John’s Red Storm of Jamaica, Queens.

In fact, St. John’s won the NCAA mens soccer championship only a couple of years ago as well if memory serves!

It’s hard to find a city which comes close to New York for sporting history, past and present…

[Moderator Hat ON]

Moving to IMHO.

[Moderator Hat OFF]

I spent six years in Cleveland, and I loved it. It’s a big city – one of the biggest in the country – but it still has a touch of small-town feel to it.

Oh, and its public library system is one of the best in the nation.

Or the last-minute Brian Sipe interception in the 1980 playoff game against the Raiders.

I’ll start this off by saying that I’m a die-hard Pittsburgher. However (and I don’t know how I’m ever going to live this down), I was in Cleveland a week ago to visit the Hall and well…I have to grudingly say it’s a nice city. The Gateway district is nice lakefront usage and well, I hope that Art Rooney Stadium turns out even better than Browns Stadium does :). Maybe I should move to Cleveland since I’ll never be allowed back into Pittsburgh again ;).


I was leaving out the Jets and Giants because they play in the Meadowlands, and the Meadowlands (despite what the Jets and Giants might wish) has a distinct “New Jersey” identity due to the Devils and Nets.

By that token, I should amend my statement to say the New Jersey has four major league sports teams, not three.

And, I’m not counting the MLS, MLL, XFL, WNBA, and other Johnny-come-lately leagues. Let them stick around a while and then we’ll bestow the name “Major League” upon them. Just Major League Baseball, the NFL and, for Canadian cities, the CFL, the NHL and the NBA.

And finally, you’re correct that in baseball, NYC is the only location that is home to both major league and minor league teams. ALthough, counting the independent Northern League, the Twin Cities come close…the Twins plus the Northern League’s St. Paul Saints. In hockey, Philadelphia has both the NHL’s Flyers and the AHL’s Phantoms, Detroit has the NHL’s Red Wings and the IHL’s Vipers, Chicago has the NHL’s Black Hawks and the IHL’s Wolves, and Phoenix has the NHL’s Coyotes and the WCHL’s Mustangs.

Chaim Mattis Keller

Why not consider the Jets and Giants to be included in the list of teams that play in the New York Tri-State area, but not in New York City (or State) proper? Because they have New York in the team name?

And, Chicago has both a major and minor league baseball team. Major league? The White Sox. Minor league? The Cubs. :stuck_out_tongue: