Clitoral alylum

Great Debates
1

I thought the snafu was ironic and posted it in MPSISM. The Honorable Lynn suggested GD. I am perplexed. Are you interested to debate racial profiling tactics of some ladies?
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=51987

Peace

2

No way to correct my own snafus here. Anyway, it’s ASYLUM. Sorry.

Peace

3

Let me join everyone else in that now-closed MPSIMS thread in saying: Huh? What’s your point?

Is FGM bad? Yes.
Should women who have a well-founded fear that they will be subjected to FGM be given asylum in the U.S.? Yes.
Is it a bad thing for women to lie about having a well-founded fear that they will be subjected to FGM in order to illegally immigrate to the U.S.? Yes.
Should women who lie about that be given asylum in the U.S.? No.
Are all women who seek asylum in the U.S. by claiming that they face forcible FGM back home lying? No.

Does anyone want to have a debate about any of those statements?

[sub](Insert obligatory references to JDT, the Tug-Ahoy™, and “MGM”–:rolleyes:–here, just to get them all out of the way.)[/sub]

4

No, but I will be the first to point out that Clitoral Asylum would be a great name for a band.

Dr. J

5

Doc, I wish I could play music in that band. Do you think I have a marketable skill? I mean, inventing cool band names?

I posted the story initially because it struck me as ironic: PC (or liberal, or clitoral defence groups, or feminis… or whatever you call them) use the same tactics as police do when they use racial profiling. They a priori assume that the government is wrong. As police assume that more drug traffickers will be fished out from young Black Americans than from old ladies drivig Oldsmobiles. Both are statistically correct, but civil rights issues arise in the latter case and quite embarrassing situations may arise in the latter. Or the philosophy is: “The government will do something, sooner or later, anyway, so, what the heck”? Or is it just free floating hatred?

Peace

6

peace: You force me to revert to my old sig line.

7

What government? Who was assuming the government was wrong? In fact, I think the point is more that people were assuming that the government was right in granting asylum.

I fail to see how “clitoral defence groups”–as you so interestingly put it–used anything at alll like racial profiling. Could you maybe expound on this subject?

8

Oh God. It’s back!

9

I thought that if somebody is against genital mutilation, it meant they are for clitoral defence, by default. I am for clitoral defence myself, actually I practice clitoral adolation in my house, but it is not a political movement, if you wish, just my weakness…
Actually, “genital defence” would be a more appropriate name, but “clitoral” has such a nice ring to it… As Doc noticed…

I thought that initially the lady was denied entry, despite her claims that genetal mutilation was a threat. Then the noise started. Whether or not one can ask for (political) asylum becase of non-political conflicts, is a separate thread, IMHO.

Myrr, police do racial profiling because they assume that the stopped and searched are very likely to carry drugs. While it is true that statistically they are more likely to carry drugs than old ladies do, innocent people should not be harassed.
I tried to draw an analogy (perhaps, unbased; we are not brilliant 100% of the time). The protesters protested government/INS actions a priori, without knowing all the facts, without willing to wait for the conclusion of investigation. Granted, they had “a case”: the government bureaucracy is usually wrong. But isn’t it a bit unfair? The best of us make money in private sector. Only mediocrities work for the government, as well as a few of the really dedicated ones (quiet, I worked for the government, on different levels).
Is it clearer now?

Peace

10

[John Cleese]Err … about 3 o’clock sir[/John Cleese]

11

I think if peace just adjusts the tinfoil hat a trifle then reception might be improved.

Up off the genitals and onto the head, perhaps.

12

“We wish you a merry clit’ris / We wish you a merry clit’ris…”

13

“Have yourself a merry little clit’ris…”

14

Peace,

I hate to break the news to you, but PC, feminists, etc. don’t exactly have a monopoly on jumping to criticize the government. In fact, I would say they don’t even have a measurable share of it! Have you tried reading some libertarians, like right here on this message board? Or, some Republicans who don’t seem to believe that local election boards can count ballots? (And who also seemed to think that the Florida Supreme Court was made up of a bunch of Democratic hacks?)

It seems to me that you just want to rant against people you don’t like. (Admittedly, maybe my comments above show that ranting against people one doesn’t like can be a bit contagious!) But usually, that is the sort of thing that is done in the Pit, I believe. I think here in GD we like something that at least vaguely resembles a coherent argument.

And, by the way, the analogy to racial profiling is not a particularly apt one, unless you want to make an analogy with anyone jumping to conclusions. The fact is that racial profiling involves the government exercising its power in racially-biased ways. That’s a lot different than a few citizens jumping to and expressing some conclusions about some incident before the facts are known, based on some preconceptions (assuming that’s what happened here…I am taking your word on the facts of the case, which, quite honestly, scares me when I think about it!)

15

Just went and re-read the story, just to be sure.

Racial Profiling: police using discriminatory tactics that target certain minorities

This case: people defending a woman who was (supposedly) fearing for the safety of her genetalia, with only very circumstancial evidence that the government was right and that she was lying. Saying “Ghana outlawed genital mutilation” is like saying “Utah outlawed polygamy”.

I’m with jshore on this one: you’re just ranting (rather incoherently, I might add) about people you don’t like.

16

Peace, I understand where you ate coming from I think, exposing how the feminazi’s jumped onto a falsehood to justify the volume of hype to perpetuate their overall political agenda. However female genital mutilation which completely impairs a persons ability to enjoy sex is constantly swept under the carpet. Considering its prevalence in African countries it amazes me that it doesn’t get the high profile that apartheid once did. Of course if millions of African men were castrated as part of a cultural tradition, the world would regard it as worse than slavery. This issue, FGM ,is perhaps the most unjust barbaric institution ever perpetrated by patriarchal societies. I’m sure we can forgive Hillary et al for being duped and taking advantage to " bump this thread to the top".

17

By the way, since this thread doesn’t seem to be going anywhere anyway, I will engage in a slight hijack here and ask the OP, or anyone else partial to the term, what qualifies one to be a “feminazi”. Are all people who are self-described feminists necessarily “feminazis” or are there specific actions that entitle one to that designation?

Just curious!

18

I’d like to clear some points:

  1. I already explained that I am against FGM. I am against AAM (anysex anything mutilation).
  2. I do not like H. Clinton, political S.Sarandon and Co. and always glad to see them down.
  3. I understand that a Ghanian lady wanted to immigrate to the racist U.S. (where police routinely practice racial profiling, among other things) so badly, that she committed crimes (lies, forgery, theft). One of the lies was that she was about to undergo FGM.
    4.The PC gang jumped on the wagon, without checking the story and assuming that the INS was wrong, not the lady.
  4. Perhaps the racial profiling (RP) analogy was not the best. I made an excuse right away (not brilliant).
  5. I am not ranting against the PC gang. This is my opinion about them. I think that men and women are equal under the law. I think that they are not equal biologically (not “superior” and “inferior”, just not the same). If somebody wants further political equality, they are free to do so, of course. I just think that standard “feminazi” (Grienspace) tactics do more harm than good. I know of some “off-Broadway” feminists, whom I like.
  6. I do not like the government, in general, on all levels. I do not consider local police “government”. I never heard about FBI or DEA using RP. With all my antigovernment hostility I say that the federal government is one of the most integrated parts of the American life, and if I am not satisfied with its racial policies, it would be the “reverse discrimination”. I am not afraid about myself, e.g., that my spot would be given to a minority. I think that any discrimination corrupts its beneficiary and does more harm than good.
  7. I do not think that local police does RP because they are racist. I think it is done out of laziness, stupidity, etc. They are right statistically: drug offenders are disproportionately minorities and police will fish out more if they cast the net among minorities. But this is unconstitutional and morally wrong. A “straight” minority youth might be stopped and searched as is a drug dealer? I.e. no matter what he does, he ends up dealing with police? This is wrong.
  8. I do not think that this country is a bottomless world asylum. We cannot and do not want to close the gate. This country was born as a dream of freedom. But the world is getting better (regrettably slow). We should establish priorities: who gets asylum. In most countries of the world life sucks. Women do not get education, men are constripted, all are sold into slavery, homosexuals are prosecuted, etc. We can’t admit everyone. I doubt that we can admit all political persecution victims (depending on definitions). And I think we can’t police the world. If the people in Sudan do not like slavery, let them get rid of it.
    I am not God. I cannot be all things for all people.
    So, Jshore, saying something against the PI gang does not constitute ranting. There are many groups I do not like. I say a word or two about them when it’s appropriate and I am in the mood. I read here, in GD, about Nazis and communists. I do not think it was ranting either. I quoted TWP. I did not call them whores or bitches. So, where is the ranting? BTW, I do not think you ranted against anyone but me.
    Peace
19

WTF is an ‘off broadway’ feminist when she is at home?

IMO feminazi is any woman who does anything that doesn’t resemble being a doormat.

And the major issue with FGM is not that it interferes with the enjoyment of sex. It can interfere with urination, and with the passing of period blood. It kills women and babies in birth. Infection is a constant threat when the infibulation is cut for the purposes of sex. It is far worse than simply not being able to enjoy sex.

20

Prima, I could not find the right word. I said ‘off-Broadway’ to distinguish them from “main-stream” variety, the one of Gloria Steinheim ilk. I am not an expert in feminazis. I thought it was a derogatory term coined by your friend :slight_smile: Rush L.
What’s “infibulation”? I look up my dictionaries, zero there. Fibula itself is too far and unrelated.

Peace