I was reading the rather excellent webcomic ‘Freefall’ - Freefall 03670 November 10, 2021 -when I wondered something. Florence, one of the main characters, is an uplifted wolf who is humanoid in form, though she looked like an entirely normal albeit intelligent wolf until she changed at puberty.
Should someone like Florence be expected to wear clothes while interacting in ordinary human society? How about if she didn’t change but remained on all fours into adult, so she’s basically a wolf with human-level intellect?
I suspect she would be considered differently if she’d been born that way or if for whatever reason she was formerly human. Must be fun trying to get that outfit on or off.
For myself I would say a humanoid animal-person should probably wear clothes and one who isn’t humanoid would probably be wise to wear some article of clothing to indicate they aren’t just an ordinary animal, like a neckerchief or something but could get away with going au naturale.
A corollary to this question is what about cyborgs or robots? Murphy aka Robocop obviously didn’t feel the need but someone like Major Kutsanagi from Ghost in the Shell does. It probably depends on how realistically human their body is.
In most traditional drawings I’ve seen, they all come from the same basic spot. So only a little tougher than for any other humanoid with a largish tail.
I feel like it would be optional for most still furry sapients but there could be a point of maybe causing too many issues. The character here, thus far appears to be in the category of it could be optional.
Now, if you were an uplifted mammal, it would probably be a good idea to wear some clothing as humans can be bastards. An undressed deer in the wrong place would probably be shot as an example. A crewperson would probably be treated much more seriously dressed as Florence seems to be than not.
It gets tricky with Seals and Cetaceans I guess. Clothing would be difficult.
Insulation or professional uniform concerns aside, the main point of clothing is to avoid an inappropriate sexual display. Upright posture makes the genitals more exposed.
Huh? No. (People spend time and energy on their clothes to look sexy; the nude beach, on the other hand, is not sexy.)
Protection from the elements aside, the point of, let’s say, pants is not to have your bare ass touch the nasty public bench everybody else has used. People have all sorts of viruses and what not.
I know nothing about that comic or what an “uplifted wolf who is humanoid in form” is supposed to be, but ISTM most cats and dogs have fur with guard hairs to protect them. And none of this is a problem for robots, cyborgs, or extradimensional Lovecraftian horrors.
IMHO, at least until we’re nearing a post-technological society, any tool using sentient will want an option to carry said tools. Whether that be a utility harness, low coverage clothing with pockets, or just a haversack / fanny pack is going to be a good idea. I mean how many threads have I seen bitching about a lack of functional pockets on human clothing after all.
And, assuming (a huge assume) similar social conventions to human society (more likely in uplift scenarios) you’ll probably pimp said utilitarian options out quickly, so show individuality, style, flair, or following trends.
So I’d suspect that as skin/fur types allow, some small amount of clothing (because thermoregulation will likely be a bitch depending on species, too high or two low with/without clothes) for all such sentients, with likely more for those interacting with human bastards on occasion, to conform to those social norms.
Well depends. Am I an uplift or a being that resembles human animals? If the latter, I’m following my own society with whatever norms that includes, but if I’m primarily interacting with human bigots I may cave a bit in order to function, especially if I’m dependent on business with them, just as a practical manner.
Of course, as an uplift, it gets much more complicated. Was it a mostly positive uplift, or a servant (or, worse yet, sexual)? Many of the early generations would likely share default human culture because that’s how they were raised, so they may not even consider it a social conditioning of subtle dominance. Later generations may well reclaim that choice for themselves.
Fundamentally, other than the practical elements I was stressing, it should be up to the choice of said sentient. But cultural taboos are powerful, and may be legally enforced as well. IE “No shirts, no shoes, no service”.
Donald Duck has been flashing people for decades. Howard the Duck wore pants on his home world. By the way, ParallelLines, does your avatar wear pants?
I beg to differ. Some form of clothing, even perfunctory loincloths that don’t really hide much, are universal. And nude beaches are a deliberate exception to our society’s mores where the point is that nudity there is by agreement NOT a proposition or a flirtation.
This installment of Freefall explains her origins:
Yes and no. After all, Aku, shapeshifting master of evil assumes whatever form that works. In many cases, Aku is “wearing” clothes but they’re just all parts of the same entity. So, in terms of wearing physical garments, no. But when infiltrating or interacting with a society in which he needs to blend in, if temporarily - sure, although just by appearance.
Frog-Aku in the swamp though is not bothering. And most of the time, as a being on the top of the power totem pole (heh) he doesn’t need to and doesn’t bother. So, yeah, position and power means you get to do what you want.
Oddly enough Carl Barks drew both “ducky” ducks like Donald and his ilk, but also among the various denizens of Duckburg more or less humanoids with a few ducklike features. They always wore pants or skirts:
The male genitals. It makes the female genitals more hidden.
And in some species testicles are quite obvious in the all fours posture.
Are they supposed to be able to use those tools/weapons/buckled bags? If so, how? They’re all designed for human hands.
Yup. Concealment makes the mind think about what’s under there. Exposing parts usually concealed is only sexual in the context of usual concealment. Who gets worked up about ankles or knees in modern Western society?
– I need to get back to reading Freefall, but I left it for a while and now don’t know how to find where I left off. However, Florence has a lot of reason to attempt to look as “civilized” as possible; if her species were common and commonly accepted, I think they’d be in a lot better position to choose whether they want to wear clothes or not. And she was raised by clothes-wearing humans.
Fingers crossed I haven’t messed this reply up, or is that toes?
You’re tailing me. Though nine-tails are only the oldest and most powerful Kitsunes, I’d probably still only have a lowly single tail, which I suspect would be more than enough to try to keep track of.
And besides there are other clothing options than pants
All good points.
Freefall really is a classic, it’s impressive how its creator has kept up such a consistently high standard for all this time.
True about the seals and cetaceans and if someone was looking for a challenge and raised say a burmese-python to sentience said snake would probably just find it easier to go au naturale.
I suspect a human, fennec and arctic-fox may have rather different ideas of what a comfortable thermostat setting is. Actually that’s an idea for a situation-comedy, different species as flat-mates
Hopefully it would be kind of like the Freefall scenario, in that human society seems a lot more relaxed and accepting of these things and diversity in general than ours. Florence herself states that she likes humans and has had good experiences with them.
I once read a story of first contact between humanity and an alien species, which resembled Earth foxes* but with thumbs, it was actually really well done with an interesting with a thoughtful description of their society and culture. As part of their coming of age each member of their species selects a star which they believe will guide their life, the main alien character has chosen Sol, which is just about visible from their home-world.
Oh and they wear clothes, but its mostly more like a practical utility belt or harness as you mention above rather than anything fancy, but that’s not really described in much detail so perhaps that’s more the POV character herself.
*yes I know, I struck gold with that one.
OK I admit it, I don’t understand that comic. They plan to colonise the planet by uplifting local animals? That’s not really a colonisation or am I missing something?
You didn’t bother with clothes when taking on human form to face that foolish samurai in hand-to-hand combat. Which btw didn’t go well.
CK - also not bothering with clothes but then I am super-fluffy.
Actually it’s a bit too cold and wet around here for that…
I haven’t played the game so I’m not sure, the tail-knife is the best part. Like a lot of art featuring animals or anthros the artist draws belts or ribbons just kind of sitting on the fur, it would have to be cinched tight around the bones in the tail not to just almost immediately slide off.
I thought the rest of her outfit is a pretty nice design for a sentient animal-bodied person, though as said it must be interesting putting it on or getting it off. Maybe someone else quite literally gives her a hand.
Never seen Zootopia though I’ve heard good things about it, I really should rectify that.
I will point out that by the point I fought the Samurai again, I was -terminally- bored. What’s the point of playing a game with zero risk? If I really, really wanted to win, I could have at any time - he’s dumb as hell, I mean, how many times did I fake him out despite not even bothering to change my color scheme? And -after- he lost the sword, I couldn’t be bothered to play with him anymore. Sure, I lost in the end, or at least, that’s what -he- thinks, but there was really nothing NEW to do anyway.
As I understand it there are 2 things going on. They are terraforming the planet for human occupation, and accidentally upgraded all the AI based machines to sentience. Secondly Florence is an intentionally uplifted wolf.
Then there is Sam, an alien who is stranded on the planet, and is the external viewpoint who can comment sardonically on the whole mess, and provide comic relief.
worse yet, sexual)? Many of the early generations would likely share default human culture because that’s how they were raised, so they may not even consider it a social conditioning of subtle dominance. Later generations may well reclaim that choice for themselves.
